T5 - MGS

[Zero 0]

  On 6/2/2011 at 7:50 PM, randyhuynh said:

not OP, those people want mage to be weak and wat them to be supporters only

 

 

 

kakakaka

 

 

i havent seen a real argument thats challenging for me, i guess its not OP since only like 5 people are really complaining and 500 people ingame isn't

Read more  

 

I don't usually care too much for PvP, just your original statement in this was pretty bs. Mages are miles away from being thrown the death sentence of "you're a support class" compared to Prs. We always get branded with that label, and mage had basically no party benefits [in terms of buff] until t5 when they got MS [keep in mind work on enchant weapon is recent development not so much in the past]. With just a decent buff they complained people would want them to be support -> lol.

 

Traditionally in this game and in player perception, it is seen as the magic classes who should AoE and the melee who should 1 v 1 as the dominant features. A lot of you mages seem to think it should be a fairly even fight with melee classes. I don't think amplify was intended to give you melee ability, just significantly reduce the gap between mage as a magic class in comparison to the melee in PvP/ 1v1. It should be seen as reducing this gap, not an equalizer. This raises the question [should you say it should be so] of what is your justification for saying "Mage should have the best AoE" [commonly used here]. Clearly the melee [exception ata] have AoE power nowhere near yours, and that doesn't seem like it will change with t5. Stone spike is also supposed to be an improved dias, way too much with the current 1 v 1 ability if you ask me [too much overall damage ability with one class]

 

You can't use the modern argument of "Everyone should be able to PvP" then go to a traditionalist standpoint when it comes to your AoE "We should be king". There also have been several suggestions in the past, including some by myself, to improve mage tanking [that shouldn't be mentioned if the current path for mage remains or it will be OP].

 

Personally I don't mind if mage wants to 1 v 1 and hunt as equal as any class, but they shouldn't complain if another class should replaces them as the kings of AoE [something I think many mage would feel is wrong even if it is justified]. As 3R said and I well know, t5 info is far from final. I'm only saying if after changes the situation is still similar to what it is now then read my argument, if not then I would have to make a new one.

[randyhuynh 0]

  On 6/2/2011 at 10:05 PM, Zero said:

  Quote

not OP, those people want mage to be weak and wat them to be supporters only

 

 

 

kakakaka

 

 

i havent seen a real argument thats challenging for me, i guess its not OP since only like 5 people are really complaining and 500 people ingame isn't

Read more  

 

I don't usually care too much for PvP, just your original statement in this was pretty bs. Mages are miles away from being thrown the death sentence of "you're a support class" compared to Prs. We always get branded with that label, and mage had basically no party benefits [in terms of buff] until t5 when they got MS [keep in mind work on enchant weapon is recent development not so much in the past]. With just a decent buff they complained people would want them to be support -> lol.

 

Traditionally in this game and in player perception, it is seen as the magic classes who should AoE and the melee who should 1 v 1 as the dominant features. A lot of you mages seem to think it should be a fairly even fight with melee classes. I don't think amplify was intended to give you melee ability, just significantly reduce the gap between mage as a magic class in comparison to the melee in PvP/ 1v1. It should be seen as reducing this gap, not an equalizer. This raises the question [should you say it should be so] of what is your justification for saying "Mage should have the best AoE" [commonly used here]. Clearly the melee [exception ata] have AoE power nowhere near yours, and that doesn't seem like it will change with t5. Stone spike is also supposed to be an improved dias, way too much with the current 1 v 1 ability if you ask me [too much overall damage ability with one class]

 

You can't use the modern argument of "Everyone should be able to PvP" then go to a traditionalist standpoint when it comes to your AoE "We should be king". There also have been several suggestions in the past, including some by myself, to improve mage tanking [that shouldn't be mentioned if the current path for mage remains or it will be OP].

 

Personally I don't mind if mage wants to 1 v 1 and hunt as equal as any class, but they shouldn't complain if another class should replaces them as the kings of AoE [something I think many mage would feel is wrong even if it is justified]. As 3R said and I well know, t5 info is far from final. I'm only saying if after changes the situation is still similar to what it is now then read my argument, if not then I would have to make a new one.

Read more  

 

well mage only got 1 skill to PVP

 

An example is in PVP or 1x1 skills is mage only got DR, while other chars got multiple skills to use for 1x1 combat

in AOE, mage got mutiple skill to killl in AOE, other chars have usually 1 strong AOE skill only

 

which balances out, in PVP mage 1 ( AOE CHAR) in AOE mage have multiple,  melee char in PVP 1x1 or PVE mutiple skill

 

and every one should be able to PVP is what i want ya. have u play any other mmorpg ? every class can PVP. but in pristontale which i play since begining of time, only a few class can pvp and that why pristontale got to many knights and pikes.

theres a reason why people choose a certain char over another.

 

its better if anyone can kill anyone, then that makes it fun. this is not pristontale no more, its better then pristontale and sandurrs have made melee char able to kill in AOE already, if u havent notice, almost all AOE skills of every class been edit so melees can level now.  now hes making editing or making chars that cant kill in 1x1 better

 

so its equally fair. cause every AOE skill for Melees HAVE BEEN edit and BOOST by ALOT.

 

 

[babyarcher 0]

  On 6/3/2011 at 1:32 AM, randyhuynh said:

  Quote

  Quote

not OP, those people want mage to be weak and wat them to be supporters only

 

 

 

kakakaka

 

 

i havent seen a real argument thats challenging for me, i guess its not OP since only like 5 people are really complaining and 500 people ingame isn't

Read more  

 

I don't usually care too much for PvP, just your original statement in this was pretty bs. Mages are miles away from being thrown the death sentence of "you're a support class" compared to Prs. We always get branded with that label, and mage had basically no party benefits [in terms of buff] until t5 when they got MS [keep in mind work on enchant weapon is recent development not so much in the past]. With just a decent buff they complained people would want them to be support -> lol.

 

Traditionally in this game and in player perception, it is seen as the magic classes who should AoE and the melee who should 1 v 1 as the dominant features. A lot of you mages seem to think it should be a fairly even fight with melee classes. I don't think amplify was intended to give you melee ability, just significantly reduce the gap between mage as a magic class in comparison to the melee in PvP/ 1v1. It should be seen as reducing this gap, not an equalizer. This raises the question [should you say it should be so] of what is your justification for saying "Mage should have the best AoE" [commonly used here]. Clearly the melee [exception ata] have AoE power nowhere near yours, and that doesn't seem like it will change with t5. Stone spike is also supposed to be an improved dias, way too much with the current 1 v 1 ability if you ask me [too much overall damage ability with one class]

 

You can't use the modern argument of "Everyone should be able to PvP" then go to a traditionalist standpoint when it comes to your AoE "We should be king". There also have been several suggestions in the past, including some by myself, to improve mage tanking [that shouldn't be mentioned if the current path for mage remains or it will be OP].

 

Personally I don't mind if mage wants to 1 v 1 and hunt as equal as any class, but they shouldn't complain if another class should replaces them as the kings of AoE [something I think many mage would feel is wrong even if it is justified]. As 3R said and I well know, t5 info is far from final. I'm only saying if after changes the situation is still similar to what it is now then read my argument, if not then I would have to make a new one.

Read more  

 

well mage only got 1 skill to PVP

 

An example is in PVP or 1x1 skills is mage only got DR, while other chars got multiple skills to use for 1x1 combat

in AOE, mage got mutiple skill to killl in AOE, other chars have usually 1 strong AOE skill only

 

which balances out, in PVP mage 1 ( AOE CHAR) in AOE mage have multiple,  melee char in PVP 1x1 or PVE mutiple skill

 

and every one should be able to PVP is what i want ya. have u play any other mmorpg ? every class can PVP. but in pristontale which i play since begining of time, only a few class can pvp and that why pristontale got to many knights and pikes.

theres a reason why people choose a certain char over another.

 

its better if anyone can kill anyone, then that makes it fun. this is not pristontale no more, its better then pristontale and sandurrs have made melee char able to kill in AOE already, if u havent notice, almost all AOE skills of every class been edit so melees can level now.  now hes making editing or making chars that cant kill in 1x1 better

 

so its equally fair. cause every AOE skill for Melees HAVE BEEN edit and BOOST by ALOT.

Read more  

 

and FS? cyclone strike? rage of zechram?

[randyhuynh 0]

wow all ya do is point out small stuff

 

and yes it been edit if u dont know anything

 

that skill has delay in official PT and it does lesser dmg

 

so he edit so it has more DMG and can cast without delay, still edit

 

man many of  u guys just fail and point small sht out, bring some real stuff to the table, im tired of typing.

 

go make a topic and complain cause i havent seen one in suggestion

[Zero 0]

  On 6/3/2011 at 1:32 AM, randyhuynh said:

well mage only got 1 skill to PVP

 

An example is in PVP or 1x1 skills is mage only got DR, while other chars got multiple skills to use for 1x1 combat

in AOE, mage got mutiple skill to killl in AOE, other chars have usually 1 strong AOE skill only

 

which balances out, in PVP mage 1 ( AOE CHAR) in AOE mage have multiple,  melee char in PVP 1x1 or PVE mutiple skill

 

and every one should be able to PVP is what i want ya. have u play any other mmorpg ? every class can PVP. but in pristontale which i play since begining of time, only a few class can pvp and that why pristontale got to many knights and pikes.

theres a reason why people choose a certain char over another.

 

its better if anyone can kill anyone, then that makes it fun. this is not pristontale no more, its better then pristontale and sandurrs have made melee char able to kill in AOE already, if u havent notice, almost all AOE skills of every class been edit so melees can level now.  now hes making editing or making chars that cant kill in 1x1 better

 

so its equally fair. cause every AOE skill for Melees HAVE BEEN edit and BOOST by ALOT.

Read more  

 

Do you need more than 1 good skill for 1v1 or AoE? Heck no, I don't know where you even got that idea. Do mages need anything other than dias to level/ out AoE everyone else? No. That is the one and only thing they need in that department to be strong and superior to other classes. Having variety is just a small bonus, but mostly all classes rely on one skill to do most of their work.

 

Speaking of edits, Dias had a huge delay the more it was leveled in retail, that was edited. Now your 1 v 1 is edited, everything has been edited for all classes. Don't say because one class got edits to make it better than retail its fair, we're all in that same boat. Silly point.

 

I didn't say everyone shouldn't be able to PvP, I was asking you why with PvP ability you would be against melee AoEing as well as you. You weren't reading my argument closely enough, that was the question I was asking. How can you say "Everyone should PvP similarly" then say "But AoE should be different, keep mages at the top". That is misusing modern and traditional viewpoints.

 

Yes, I have played many other mmorpgs, and they've all been horribly unbalanced PvP wise [the ones I've played]. Only a few classes could PvP on PT because PT was originally made without it, the original development was not designed for such a system. On any mmo I've seen, there are classes better suited for PvP than others. Being able to PvP doesn't mean equality, just like how being able to AoE doesn't mean equality. A pike can AoE with tornado, its far weaker than mages dia, but it doesn't mean hes not AoEing.

 

I'm not making a suggestion topic until tier5 is finished, then we will probably all go around saying how things should be fixed. Its pointless for now, even if we know something needs to be nerfed [Ex: Pike ATR boost skill], we won't know by how much until we can fairly compare it to all other t5 skills.

 

Also, cyclone strike is not a strong AoE.

[randyhuynh 0]

  On 6/3/2011 at 8:58 AM, Zero said:

  Quote

well mage only got 1 skill to PVP

 

An example is in PVP or 1x1 skills is mage only got DR, while other chars got multiple skills to use for 1x1 combat

in AOE, mage got mutiple skill to killl in AOE, other chars have usually 1 strong AOE skill only

 

which balances out, in PVP mage 1 ( AOE CHAR) in AOE mage have multiple,  melee char in PVP 1x1 or PVE mutiple skill

 

and every one should be able to PVP is what i want ya. have u play any other mmorpg ? every class can PVP. but in pristontale which i play since begining of time, only a few class can pvp and that why pristontale got to many knights and pikes.

theres a reason why people choose a certain char over another.

 

its better if anyone can kill anyone, then that makes it fun. this is not pristontale no more, its better then pristontale and sandurrs have made melee char able to kill in AOE already, if u havent notice, almost all AOE skills of every class been edit so melees can level now.  now hes making editing or making chars that cant kill in 1x1 better

 

so its equally fair. cause every AOE skill for Melees HAVE BEEN edit and BOOST by ALOT.

Read more  

 

Do you need more than 1 good skill for 1v1 or AoE? Heck no, I don't know where you even got that idea. Do mages need anything other than dias to level/ out AoE everyone else? No. That is the one and only thing they need in that department to be strong and superior to other classes. Having variety is just a small bonus, but mostly all classes rely on one skill to do most of their work.

 

Speaking of edits, Dias had a huge delay the more it was leveled in retail, that was edited. Now your 1 v 1 is edited, everything has been edited for all classes. Don't say because one class got edits to make it better than retail its fair, we're all in that same boat. Silly point.

 

I didn't say everyone shouldn't be able to PvP, I was asking you why with PvP ability you would be against melee AoEing as well as you. You weren't reading my argument closely enough, that was the question I was asking. How can you say "Everyone should PvP similarly" then say "But AoE should be different, keep mages at the top". That is misusing modern and traditional viewpoints.

 

Yes, I have played many other mmorpgs, and they've all been horribly unbalanced PvP wise [the ones I've played]. Only a few classes could PvP on PT because PT was originally made without it, the original development was not designed for such a system. On any mmo I've seen, there are classes better suited for PvP than others. Being able to PvP doesn't mean equality, just like how being able to AoE doesn't mean equality. A pike can AoE with tornado, its far weaker than mages dia, but it doesn't mean hes not AoEing.

 

I'm not making a suggestion topic until tier5 is finished, then we will probably all go around saying how things should be fixed. Its pointless for now, even if we know something needs to be nerfed [Ex: Pike ATR boost skill], we won't know by how much until we can fairly compare it to all other t5 skills.

 

Also, cyclone strike is not a strong AoE.

Read more  

 

i never say we need more 1x1 skill, read, i say every1 got boost from other skill in AOE, now mage get boost from 1x1 which is now our turn,

 

 

-go make a topic in suggestion and complain if ur still crying about mage.  cause no1 man up yet

[Zero 0]

I'm saying the boost in your 1x1 is not equivalent to the boost melees got in their AoE. I'm saying mage profited more here in this tradeoff. The boost melee AoE then boost mage 1v1 only works if the two are on equal terms.

 

This is coupled with the fact mage is expected to get an even better AoE skill than dias [silly imo, since many melee will still be stuck with t1-t4 AoEs].

 

Also I'm not crying about it atm. I said twice already I believe that I'd wait to see how the rest of t5 goes to see if it really is necessary.

[randyhuynh 0]

well i dont like reading ur paragraphs >.<, im just here to argue against everyone who wants mage to be shit again, thats all. but ya we will see after all skill be realease or so

[Zero 0]

  On 6/3/2011 at 11:43 AM, randyhuynh said:

well i dont like reading ur paragraphs >.<, im just here to argue against everyone who wants mage to be shit again, thats all. but ya we will see after all skill be realease or so

Read more  

 

No worries, I expect most people don't want to read them . I can tell you I don't want magic classes to be crap, that is one of my biggest complaints is how melee has 6 classes that can team up and bully the other 2 to being weak or "support". I try to be objective though, so I don't want them to be too OP either.

[Edgardo 0]

Hey guys, lets get on topic.

 

 

 

About your discussion, the only thing i can say is that Death ray is not OP, in any way. I can't get even close of killing a lvl 120 FS, and the guy killed me many times. Also, it was almost impossible to kill a lvl 113 FS (unlucky?).

 

At the complaining 12x archer are as strong as 11x mage: first of all, totally wrong methodology, no offence.  Also, Sander is going to change the archer's damage formula, so it may get better. So the problem is with archers, not mages.

 

 

 

Sticking back, the only bad side of tier5 is that it doesn't address mages lack of tanking. It should be addressed somehow. Otherwise it seems good and fair. I tried some pvp and can say it's pretty ok, even though i can't kill fs by my own, which sad.

 

the only thing i could 1-shot is a little mage using dark iria robe which let me test than i 1-shoted him with no intention (i thought it was no 1-shot him).

 

Also i can kill random 10x and 11x pikeman, forget about 12x pikeman. FS only if it has lvl lower than 110. IF i tanked more perhaps could kill him.

 

Wating the next skill to see if T5 has any leveling utility.

[Zero 0]

That is also the wrong comparison though, FS has high hp and is quite skilled at 1v1. Talk in a broader sense, not just the two best PvP classes [one of which is ridiculous OP atm ]. Mech/ks/ata need to be taken into consideration as well, with equivalent gear, skill and level, how do you fare against those classes? We need information from all aspects.

[Edgardo 0]

cool beans

 

I'll try to gather this information.