Skill Balance Tester Candidate

[martual 1]

I suggest the below players rather than by GM/certain players (3 for each category)

 

Mechanician:

1. Gogg

2. widGt

3. Glennish

 

Fighter:

1.

2.

3.

 

Pikeman:

1. CYE

2. Kitkid

3.

 

Knight:

1. Tuyennoob

2.

3.

 

Priestess:

1. Vanbibi

2.

3.

 

Magician:

1. 3R

2.

3.

 

Atalanta:

1. Eris

2. Fuel

3.

 

Archer:

1. LegolaS.

2. Pwnd

3.

 

Please provide our suggested players. Thanks

[Zero 0]

Being objective is hard when it comes to your own class, and I doubt there are 3 of such people with the experience, reputation, and objectiveness for each class for an ideal team. People also don't strictly stick to one class either. Regardless, we will all have some bias towards our own class.

 

This is also clearly a suggestion and should be there. Only once its approved should you put a list up, and it will still probably cause problems of who should be on or not even if approved.

[babyarcher 0]

Being objective is hard when it comes to your own class, and I doubt there are 3 of such people with the experience, reputation, and objectiveness for each class for an ideal team. People also don't strictly stick to one class either. Regardless, we will all have some bias towards our own class.

 

This is also clearly a suggestion and should be there. Only once its approved should you put a list up, and it will still probably cause problems of who should be on or not even if approved.

 

He suggested it before in some other thread, you kinda can figure out what happened  :

[Zero 0]

He suggested it before in some other thread, you kinda can figure out what happened  :

 

Ya I think I commented on that as well, but w/e same suggestion same reply I gave.

[martual 1]

OK. From this point i rest my case. Things will never work in rpt. Just play as what it has then. Why are new things being intorduced on timely basis. why dont focus first on skill balancing? Before solving T1-T4, T5 is introduced. What is the priority in rpt for now?

[Zero 0]

OK. From this point i rest my case. Things will never work in rpt. Just play as what it has then. Why are new things being intorduced on timely basis. why dont focus first on skill balancing? Before solving T1-T4, T5 is introduced. What is the priority in rpt for now?

 

Why solve T1-T4, do you think no skill complements another? They are all not independent cases, they work together to form the class. Balancing T1-T4 is completely pointless, whatever balance you establish is going to be completely changed with T5.

 

Ex:

Gods bless adds +100/100 damage, that is going to affect how strong a T5 attack skill is. There are also new support buffs [people will probably make more mules other than prs for these] which are going to change damage, hp regen and other things. How will Ata's split javelin be with +120% damage boost when they get 8 attack speed from their new buff? [16 attack speed with + 120% damage boost lol wut]. I could go on endless possibilities with how T5 is going to change the T1-T4 skills and vice versa. This is why making a balance for the current 4 tiers is pointless, you're just adding more work for sandurr to do over again, A LOT more at that.

 

I'm sorry, but this is plain freaking common sense.

 

For this reason, the larger part of skill balancing should or will be done after T5.

 

The priorities are listed on the development page, marked by their importance.

 

Yes, RPT will fail without your wisdom, clearly I see that now.

 

If your going to make a criticism, be fair about it to the staff and server and have sound reason behind it, or its just baseless whining.

 

This is why your getting ignored

 

K thnx.

[martual 1]

Read through all my posts that i posted before on skill balance. I never whine a single shit any any skills. The way i look at is development is underway on certain issue ONLY WHEN it is brought up and agreed by certain people and it is set to go. Ask Gogg for how freaking long hes asking for MS skill balance?

 

EDIT : i never said i am a super genius, but at least i know what is development and not solving things like jigsaw puzzle. If T5 going to replace T1-T4, then freaking educate the players to understand it. Why are they still some improvements in T1-T4?

[Zero 0]

Read through all my posts that i posted before on skill balance. I never whine a single shit any any skills. The way i look at is development is underway on certain issue ONLY WHEN it is brought up and agreed by certain people and it is set to go. Ask Gogg for how freaking long hes asking for MS skill balance?

 

I've read quite a few of them, what got me going on that ranting was mainly the comments about the server, those weren't justified at all. Whether your past posts complained or not doesn't matter, clearly you said "Why don't focus first on skill balancing" to direct quote you. This is clearly criticizing the lack of balance in the T1-T4 skills, it can be justified, but you didn't really provide that in a sound and logical way. When I quote a certain post, I'm talking about that one, your past ones don't matter much to me when I clearly wasn't talking about them.

 

Pretty sure they do a pretty good job of not keeping us too much in the dark on what the developments are. The way you see development and the way the staff sees it are not necessarily the same. Your talking about implementation, not development. 3R also communicates with sandurr I believe and keeps us informed.

 

MS got a small thing to try to hold them over, look at what already happened, some mages are then asking "where is our balance?" Then you get the AS, FS, the prs, etc. and were all stuck on this train without getting anything else done for awhile.

[meeks 0]

well i understand martual overall

 

balance t1-4 out first

than u only have to balance on tier in, when t5 is released. not 5 tiers at once...

 

davv should be 2nd mech tester

[Zero 0]

well i understand martual overall

 

balance t1-4 out first

than u only have to balance on tier in, when t5 is released. not 5 tiers at once...

 

davv should be 2nd mech tester

 

Read ffs, the t5 skills effect the T1-T4 skills and vice versa. I do not get what about this concept is alluding some of you here. You will not only have to balance t5 after doing T1-T4, you will have to go back and readjust T1-T4 because of how T5 is going to affect it.

 

Read my example in my above post and the one on this one. Non-op skills now like ata twist javelin could become stupid OP with the potential of T5. What needs adjusting now may not necessarily later. What if you made it stronger now, even though the current will be OP with t5, then have to go back and weaken it severely when t5 comes? You're trying to add pointless loop work for sandurr is all you're accomplishing.

 

Look at pike ffs, did attack rating do ANYTHING to just t5? Heck no, it made ALL their t1-t4 skills OP and strong and in actuality did NOTHING to their current t5. With their critical and attack power, a good pike could drop a lot of people with just CL since they don't miss half as much. Now because of this t5 skill, either it, t1-t4 skills, or both will need adjusting. Skills effect each other, which is why you can't go making everything "balanced" then add new skills, because that "balance" was only made for not having the new skills, it won't work with new skills. <-----Please for freaking sakes read this line before another one of you posts "Balance T1-T4, then do t5"

 

 

[beaker1337 0]

well i understand martual overall

 

balance t1-4 out first

than u only have to balance on tier in, when t5 is released. not 5 tiers at once...

 

davv should be 2nd mech tester

 

Read ffs, the t5 skills effect the T1-T4 skills and vice versa. I do not get what about this concept is alluding some of you here. You will not only have to balance t5 after doing T1-T4, you will have to go back and readjust T1-T4 because of how T5 is going to affect it.

 

Read my example in my above post and the one on this one. Non-op skills now like ata twist javelin could become stupid OP with the potential of T5. What needs adjusting now may not necessarily later. What if you made it stronger now, even though the current will be OP with t5, then have to go back and weaken it severely when t5 comes? You're trying to add pointless loop work for sandurr is all you're accomplishing.

 

Look at pike ffs, did attack rating do ANYTHING to just t5? Heck no, it made ALL their t1-t4 skills OP and strong and in actuality did NOTHING to their current t5. With their critical and attack power, a good pike could drop a lot of people with just CL since they don't miss half as much. Now because of this t5 skill, either it, t1-t4 skills, or both will need adjusting. Skills effect each other, which is why you can't go making everything "balanced" then add new skills, because that "balance" was only made for not having the new skills, it won't work with new skills. <-----Please for freaking sakes read this line before another one of you posts "Balance T1-T4, then do t5"

 

You can do it either way. If you have balance in T1-4. and T5 makes everything OP then you change T5 not 1-4. Not change 1-4 thats actually more work as now more variables are involved. But this is just from a outside standpoint. I am not the one changing anything. Nor do any of the development staff even know who I am. Wartale and Co. will do things how they think is best, and I'm ok with that. Things are getting done and that cant be a bad thing.

[Zero 0]

You can do it either way. If you have balance in T1-4. and T5 makes everything OP then you change T5 not 1-4. Not change 1-4 thats actually more work as now more variables are involved. But this is just from a outside standpoint. I am not the one changing anything. Nor do any of the development staff even know who I am. Wartale and Co. will do things how they think is best, and I'm ok with that. Things are getting done and that cant be a bad thing.

 

You really can't, sometimes a nerf isn't enough on just t5 skills. Nerfing does not change the skills function. Maximize whether boosted or nerfed, did not change the fact it added a % off your weapons attack power.

Examples:

Atas javelin mastery will add both crit and attack speed, even if it is nerfed, that is going to have a huge effect on T1-T4. What the skills function is probably will not change, and that function [such as attack speed] may make something OP regardless so you need to go nerf the skill its making OP. Even if you nerfed it to 1 attack speed and 1 crit damage [the minimal amount it could have, even with nerfs], that could make something like a 120% damage boost on a t2 skill too strong, in turn you need to nerf that.

 

They also now have a pet that might tank for them, who knows how that changes them hunting wise whether the pet is weak or not?

 

Amplify is set to boost mage 1 v 1 damage [so regardless their 1 v 1 will improve no matter what % the skill adds], will it still be fair for them to make a claim they should have the strongest AoE if their 1 v 1 becomes on par with other classes?

 

Archers are going to get a lot of speed in one of their skills, with the ability to stun, could wind arrow now destroy people before they respond and be needing a nerf? [not likely but go with the analogy here]

 

How will more damage and critical with fire axe + more AR affect strong FS skills like destroyer? Isn't over 30%+ critical + berserker + AR + more damage going to be a bit strong?

 

You can nerf t5 all you want, but the functions of such skills could be the problem and those will likely not change. It would also not be fair to nerf something like amplify to 5% or useless [and any t5 skill for that matter], there would be no point in making a 5th tier skill that useless. Thus the adjustments might better be suited in the lower tiers. You simply cannot treat skills as independent, their functions complement and effect other skills, it is impossible to separate them out completely as not having any association. I do not know why this idea is so hard to accept for so many people.

[martual 1]

Zero, are you in the testing team? I reckon you should coz u r good man really. additionla help would be nice

[beaker1337 0]

You can do it either way. If you have balance in T1-4. and T5 makes everything OP then you change T5 not 1-4. Not change 1-4 thats actually more work as now more variables are involved. But this is just from a outside standpoint. I am not the one changing anything. Nor do any of the development staff even know who I am. Wartale and Co. will do things how they think is best, and I'm ok with that. Things are getting done and that cant be a bad thing.

 

You really can't, sometimes a nerf isn't enough on just t5 skills. Nerfing does not change the skills function. Maximize whether boosted or nerfed, did not change the fact it added a % off your weapons attack power.

Examples:

Atas javelin mastery will add both crit and attack speed, even if it is nerfed, that is going to have a huge effect on T1-T4. What the skills function is probably will not change, and that function [such as attack speed] may make something OP regardless so you need to go nerf the skill its making OP. Even if you nerfed it to 1 attack speed and 1 crit damage [the minimal amount it could have, even with nerfs], that could make something like a 120% damage boost on a t2 skill too strong, in turn you need to nerf that.

 

They also now have a pet that might tank for them, who knows how that changes them hunting wise whether the pet is weak or not?

 

Amplify is set to boost mage 1 v 1 damage [so regardless their 1 v 1 will improve no matter what % the skill adds], will it still be fair for them to make a claim they should have the strongest AoE if their 1 v 1 becomes on par with other classes?

 

Archers are going to get a lot of speed in one of their skills, with the ability to stun, could wind arrow now destroy people before they respond and be needing a nerf? [not likely but go with the analogy here]

 

How will more damage and critical with fire axe + more AR affect strong FS skills like destroyer? Isn't over 30%+ critical + berserker + AR + more damage going to be a bit strong?

 

You can nerf t5 all you want, but the functions of such skills could be the problem and those will likely not change. It would also not be fair to nerf something like amplify to 5% or useless [and any t5 skill for that matter], there would be no point in making a 5th tier skill that useless. Thus the adjustments might better be suited in the lower tiers. You simply cannot treat skills as independent, their functions complement and effect other skills, it is impossible to separate them out completely as not having any association. I do not know why this idea is so hard to accept for so many people.

 

You see Zero heres how Logic works. If T1 is balanced and T2 comes along and makes thing op then T2 is the culprit. if T1-2 are balanced and T3 comes along and screws things up T3 is the culprit....... if t1-4 are balanced and T5 comes out then the last part that was added is the one screwing things up. Yes i agree that T5 will affect T1-4. However if T1-4 are balanced and T5 is added and balanced then guess what everything is still balanced. If T1-4 are not balanced and 5 is out then things will be weak and others OP and you wont know the true cause. And matter of fact if there are fundamental problems with Char  formulas then the problems can become exacerbated even more extensively.

 

Or for an analogy if you bake a cake and its perfect then when you put frosting on it it looks like crap. the frosting is whats screwed up. not the cake itself.

and if the cake tastes like crap no amount of frosting will make it great.

or another if you dont like that one. If your car rides down the road straight, and you change tires and it pulls left. The prblem is the tires not the frame.

However if the frame is bent even the best tires wont fix it.

 

You see your so stuck on your view point you cant see anyone elses. I dont mind how its being done, I like the fact that things are being done

[Edgardo 0]

I actually didn't read everything, but i'd like to some points in the table:

 

- Zero is right, it's better to wait the game gain it's new form before start testing.

 

- Menawhile we can shoose who will test, maybe by voting?

 

- it should be discussed the objectives of (what is a correct balance) and (what exactly is the role of each class in this balance) before testing.

 

 

I'd say all tests should have a "expected result", and a "fail condition". I say this by experience.

 

 

 

So i'd like to put myself in it. count on me.

[TripleR 0]

Strange topic.

No point in balancing T1~T4 now because Tier 5 is already being released. After that, sure, balance can [and probably will] be done. Also, shouldn't this be on suggestions' board?

 

On a side note,

 

I suggest the below players rather than by GM/certain players (3 for each category)

 

Mechanician:

1. Gogg

 

Maximize is overpowered now? I don't think so. But seems everyone else do think it is, and it must be nerfed

 

...

I wonder what criteria was used.

 

 

Anyway,

 

Zero, are you in the testing team? I reckon you should coz u r good man really. additionla help would be nice

 

I have to agree, he's part of the 1% of the community that is actually qualified for that.

[Gogg 3]

Getting my whole text limited to that phrase is pretty easy, huh

 

By following what you say I wonder why I'm always asked about the problems of my class and why I was inside previous balance attempts

[vodkawolf 0]

u can write me down for pike/ms if u want. im not that high lvl but i want to help anyway possible to stop the skill blance flame wars

[GuiBitencourt 0]

waste of time...

There are GMs and staff to do this.

 

then ask gm to stop all the skill suggestion. just do what they think is right. oh i forgot who you are lol

 

Man, let's talk clearly. What do u want here?

I guess u want to be a candidate and u are waiting someone post here "we want u", let's celebrate.

That's what i think. U are the good guy, the fair player, so, why not huh? /sarcasm

IIIII THINKKKKKKK (MY OPINION) Ur topic is Pointless. Dont NEED. Staff has many guys, they have their own chars, they can test.

1st- Make ur skill suggestion.

2nd- Staff test.

3rd-Wartale implements.

 

And talk to my hand now, i dont have much time to waste here with u. ;D

 

[martual 1]

waste of time...

There are GMs and staff to do this.

 

then ask gm to stop all the skill suggestion. just do what they think is right. oh i forgot who you are lol

 

Man, let's talk clearly. What do u want here?

I guess u want to be a candidate and u are waiting someone post here "we want u", let's celebrate.

That's what i think. U are the good guy, the fair player, so, why not huh? /sarcasm

IIIII THINKKKKKKK (MY OPINION) Ur topic is Pointless. Dont NEED. Staff has many guys, they have their own chars, they can test.

1st- Make ur skill suggestion.

2nd- Staff test.

3rd-Wartale implements.

 

And talk to my hand now, i dont have much time to waste here with u. ;D

 

Chill man. Why so serious. I nvr interested to be in any relate to admin. I dont even want to be the candidate coz i never a pvp person. I jst see skill suggestion been there for a year since i play rpt and things are improving by 5%? how long to reach even 50%?

[tommylizard 1]

Magician:

1. Raul

 

ps: lol at vanbibi, eris and tuyennoob, so impartial haha

[Edgardo 0]

The player testing initiative is nice.

 

 

We even have time to organize things right before testing.

 

The biggest flaw in all of it is that we don't know what sandurr things is the correct balance, so we may assume something false. So we can report the current situation, but without knowing what is the intended behavior (in terms of balance) i Mean, how much certain class should be good at X thing.

 

Either way it seems interesting.

 

Any formed software tester around?

[martual 1]

I jst think the real owner of the char know what the char all abt. Will be amended. Btw what is Raul mgs nick?

[Edgardo 0]

is gothic.

 

maybe you'd offer it to verillhion and inowee.

 

 

 

btw. the biggest matter will be now to plan the tests. executing then won't require more skill then the necessary to play the game. knowing the environment variables helps though.

[snoopgal 2]

i agree to the idea