To think

[wolf0119 267]

Much has been said about the imbalance of the class and the advantages that some have for others, so I would like to open up the panorama for you a little, I clarify that I will be as GENERAL as I can, since to understand this, you do not need to see every detail,  (I'm not an expert on the subject either, but I think I have something to contribute).

 

*I want to remind you that my post is specifically aimed at the efficiency in exp, so I largely take the capabilities of the classes in other areas, even if it is true that to ask for something, we must see the whole context to be able to ask for something, and that's maybe one of all the mistakes in this post

 

*I also believe that although there are advantages of classes in other areas, the efficiency in exp should be the most balanced

 

I think the correct path that the server should take is to improve the classes to the point that the gap between them is not so differentiable, and I think that is the path that the players should demand.

 

It has been repeatedly asked that ms be nerfed, and now let me explain why that does not benefit anyone, yes, anyone.

 

Nerfing the ms is just patching  the class gap problem, not solving it, since whenever a class is nerfed, a new one comes out to take the top, reason why I consider that the solution is to buff the rest of the classes until reducing the gap to something acceptable, clearly they cannot put everyone on the same level, because that would be illogical, since it should be considered that the classes are different and always open some better in certain aspects, but all with their unique strength, this is what makes them special.

 

Now, if you think the problem is that you don't get pt because the ms-auto dominates the field, think again, because the people who exp with ms-auto already have their group of people for exp, so even though the ms  get a nerf, this will not in any way ensure a greater chance of getting pt with them, in fact you would LOSE the opportunity to level up in a pt with 2-3 ms-auto, the only thing that happens is that these people change classes, when the new best class is established, and it will be more of the same.

 

Also consider that a class that decides to sacrifice all its defense to obtain a greater attack, cannot be mediocre ?  * (But I also understand that the same class cannot be superior in all aspects than the rest, and I find it very interesting when @Lyseriasaid that an authentic class in its pure state, can not be worse than a copy (as I understand from the description from ms)

 

Let's talk about the classes, in a very GENERAL way, If you have to measure your efficiency in numbers during exp in ss, I would do it this way, it does not mean that it is correct: 

 

Auto-ms : 2.0

ATA: 1.6

SS:1.4

AS: 1.4

MG: 1.4

PRS: 1.3

ASS: 1.3

PS:1.3

FS: 1.2

KS: 1

 

clearly this depends on the build, support of articles that are used, This mediation does not have to be correct, just give you an idea of what I am trying to explain.

 

so i propose to create something similar to this:

*

1.-  AS / ATA
2.-  Auto MS
3.- - FS/PS/KS/PS  (semi brecha) - SS/MG/Prs

 

 

I repeat, this does not have to be as I say, it is just to give you an idea, but I think it is the change that we should seek, since this benefits everyone, something similar to that.

 

* I also want to highlight that there will always be people using classes of support, for anything, since there will always be those who want to be more efficient in terms of exp, if they do not use prs, they will use ms, if not a full hp ks, be clear that these people they will always find the form of support, since they have the capacity to do so

 

*the dominant classes in this game are clear, it is enough to take a look at the ranking to realize it, and I think this is a big mistake, the classes should not be better in everything, just different

 

It should be noted that I have always thought that classes should be autonomous, and simply complement each other, not be dependent, as in the case of the ranks in this game, but hey, this is another very broad topic to cover

 

So yes, this is not a suggestion for the staff, it is a suggestion for you, that you want the game to improve and be more enjoyable for everyone, so the next time you apply for a nerf, think that you can only see your particular case (or that of your friends), but you cannot see the full picture or actual data that only one adm has access to.

 

I think that adm are looking for the best solution, considering all possible aspects, I believe in this server and its people, and I know that the best solution will be found, you just have to be patient and impartial with the situation.

 

*it is true that the classes have an imbalance now, and the gm knows it, and they work on it, I just say that you have to look a little at the community to have a better vision of things, as they say, uan they they can't find out everything

 

*With this I do not ask that the classes be balanced to a maximum point, because as it has been said before, if this is done, the game would have 10 equal classes with different names, and this is useless

 

So I hope this topic will help the community to get an idea of what the changes in the classes mean, or at least, it has opened up a little for them, I think this is the way, but I am also willing to read your point of view.

 

*let's seek to reduce the gap ^^

 

This seems to be a suggestion post, but I consider it more as one more attempt to convey an idea, that's why I post it in the garden of freedom and not in the suggestion section, Have a good day everyone ❤️ 

 

This post is translated with google translator, because it may have errors ^^

Edited May 8, 2020 by wolf0119

[ChainLancer 98]

12 minutes ago, wolf0119 said:

Much has been said about the imbalance of the class and the advantages that some have for others, so I would like to open up the panorama for you a little, I clarify that I will be as GENERAL as I can, since to understand this, you do not need to see every detail,  (I'm not an expert on the subject either, but I think I have something to contribute).

 

I think the correct path that the server should take is to improve the classes to the point that the gap between them is not so differentiable, and I think that is the path that the players should demand.

 

It has been repeatedly asked that ms be nerfed, and now let me explain why that does not benefit anyone, yes, anyone.

 

Nerfing the ms is just patching  the class gap problem, not solving it, since whenever a class is nerfed, a new one comes out to take the top, reason why I consider that the solution is to buff the rest of the classes until reducing the gap to something acceptable, clearly they cannot put everyone on the same level, because that would be illogical, since it should be considered that the classes are different and always open some better in certain aspects, but all with their unique strength, this is what makes them special.

 

Now, if you think the problem is that you don't get pt because the ms-auto dominates the field, think again, because the people who exp with ms-auto already have their group of people for exp, so even though the ms  get a nerf, this will not in any way ensure a greater chance of getting pt with them, in fact you would LOSE the opportunity to level up in a pt with 2-3 ms-auto, the only thing that happens is that these people change classes, when the new best class is established, and it will be more of the same.

 

Also consider that a class that decides to sacrifice all its defense to obtain a greater attack, cannot be mediocre ? 

 

Let's talk about the classes, in a very GENERAL way, If you have to measure your efficiency in numbers during exp in ss, I would do it this way, it does not mean that it is correct: 

 

Auto-ms : 2.0

ATA: 1.6

SS:1.4

AS: 1.4

MG: 1.4

PRS: 1.3

ASS: 1.3

PS:1.3

FS: 1.2

KS: 1

 

clearly this depends on the build, support of articles that are used, This mediation does not have to be correct, just give you an idea of what I am trying to explain.

 

so i propose to create something similar to this:

 

Auto-ms : 1.9

ATA: 1.8

SS:1.7

AS: 1.8

MG: 1.7

PRS: 1.6

ASS: 1.6

FS: 1.6

PS: 1.6

KS: 1.5

 

I repeat, this does not have to be as I say, it is just to give you an idea, but I think it is the change that we should seek, since this benefits everyone, something similar to that.

 

So yes, this is not a suggestion for the staff, it is a suggestion for you, that you want the game to improve and be more enjoyable for everyone, so the next time you apply for a nerf, think that you can only see your particular case (or that of your friends), but you cannot see the full picture or actual data that only one adm has access to.

 

I think that adm are looking for the best solution, considering all possible aspects, I believe in this server and its people, and I know that the best solution will be found, you just have to be patient and impartial with the situation.

 

So I hope this topic will help the community to get an idea of what the changes in the classes mean, or at least, it has opened up a little for them, I think this is the way, but I am also willing to read your point of view.

 

This seems to be a suggestion post, but I consider it more as one more attempt to convey an idea, that's why I post it in the garden of freedom and not in the suggestion section, Have a good day everyone ❤️ 

 

This post is translated with google translator, because it may have errors ^^

Only Ms is the best class is right.

I do not agree with these number.

Auto-ms : 2.0

ATA: 1.6

SS:1.4

AS: 1.4

MG: 1.4

PRS: 1.3

ASS: 1.3

PS:1.3

FS: 1.2

KS: 1

 

For me, currently if all chars have prs support and for experiencing all things in games:

MS : 2.0 (no.1 power)

KS: 1.8 (high defense, good lightening skill and undead killer)

SS: 1.6 (high hp, abs, high dame)

AS: 1.5 (high dame, low hp, kill from far)

ATA: 1.5 (same As, many useful skills)

MGS: 1.4 (high dame PVE, high AOE dame, low dame PVP)

PRS: 1.3 (best support, high AOE dame, low PVP dame)

FS: 1.2 (high dame PVP, can kill with 1 hand)

ASS: 1.1 (nice killer in BC, nice AOE dame, not good in hunt)

PS: 1 (no need in server).

 

[jo0okr 3]

Also am wondering why people keep complaining about ms auto as he cant go to SOD or even to PVP, the only thing he does to boost them leveling. 

 

In other hand when you get ms auto you lose the chance of being a tank where you just get 1 shot to die so its already balanced and no need to change anything with MS.

 

And if it been nerfed i wont blame people who complained i will blame who ever listened to them and made the change. 

 

As you can compare the same atk with as or ata with pure atk build and same items.

1 minute ago, ChainLancer said:

Only Ms is the best class is right.

I do not agree with these number.

Auto-ms : 2.0

ATA: 1.6

SS:1.4

AS: 1.4

MG: 1.4

PRS: 1.3

ASS: 1.3

PS:1.3

FS: 1.2

KS: 1

 

For me, currently if all chars have prs support and for experiencing all things in games:

MS : 2.0 (no.1 power)

KS: 1.8 (high defense, good lightening skill and undead killer)

SS: 1.6 (high hp, abs, high dame)

AS: 1.5 (high dame, low hp, kill from far)

ATA: 1.5 (same As, many useful skills)

MGS: 1.4 (high dame PVE, high AOE dame, low dame PVP)

PRS: 1.3 (best support, high AOE dame, low PVP dame)

FS: 1.2 (high dame PVP, can kill with 1 hand)

ASS: 1.1 (nice killer in BC, nice AOE dame, not good in hunt)

PS: 1 (no need in server).

 

Man what do you mean by the best? When you get 1 shot to die and worst class in SOD? Even in pvp the atk is bad

[ChainLancer 98]

4 minutes ago, jo0okr said:

Also am wondering why people keep complaining about ms auto as he cant go to SOD or even to PVP, the only thing he does to boost them leveling. 

 

In other hand when you get ms auto you lose the chance of being a tank where you just get 1 shot to die so its already balanced and no need to change anything with MS.

 

And if it been nerfed i wont blame people who complained i will blame who ever listened to them and made the change. 

 

As you can compare the same atk with as or ata with pure atk build and same items.

Man what do you mean by the best? When you get 1 shot to die and worst class in SOD? Even in pvp the atk is bad

So, the answer is more than 50% server is MS.

 

In case that all players have prs.

Ms is best char.

 

[wolf0119 267]

As I said in the post, the numbers are only a reference, even with your modification the gap is still obvious, so the point of publication remains the same ^^’

exactly, the ms is superior to the rest of the classes in several aspects, but I think the way is to improve the rest of the classes, not nerfing the ms, that is the point of the publication

[jo0okr 3]

3 minutes ago, ChainLancer said:

So, the answer is more than 50% server is MS.

 

In case that all players have prs.

Ms is best char.

 

If you talk about percentage then am sure more than 50% in server is KS

[ChainLancer 98]

4 minutes ago, wolf0119 said:

As I said in the post, the numbers are only a reference, even with your modification the gap is still obvious, so the point of publication remains the same ^^’

exactly, the ms is superior to the rest of the classes in several aspects, but I think the way is to improve the rest of the classes, not nerfing the ms, that is the point of the publication

Improve other chars with the same dame with Auto MS?

 

No, the problem now are Monster can not deal damage with rangers like Ms, or As...

 

If you chars have the same prs for support, melees can get hit from monster but rangers can not. 

 

So, the point is you have lower damage but you need to get hit from monster???

 

 

7 minutes ago, jo0okr said:

If you talk about percentage then am sure more than 50% in server is KS

Pls visit top 100 ms and 100 ks to see level bro. And also top 100 all chars to see how many MS.

 

And yes, Ks is no.2 i accept.

[suesue 234]

Why pure damage class like As, Ats deal lesser than hybird MS class?. I dont wanna nerf any class. I wanna slightly buff.

[Clem 1,241]

Hello,

 

First of all, I wouldn't use "nerf" for MS, but "balance". ATM, a 14x MS make twice more dmg than some 16x class. It's very clear that MS is overpowered.

As said before, x1,5 is more than enough since it's a ranger class and as you said, they have to get the advantage.

Since you're talking about class balance, I'll be more general for a fair game :

 

QUICK FIX

The staff are able to change fews things ingame without making a maintenance. Or even a quick maintenance doesn't looks complicated for them nowadays, such as the last one they made(Quick maintenance with some news features).

 

So, I would like to know, why it takes so long time to :

-Balance MS ?

-Fix pets & crystals ? --> This one is a big problem ATM ......................... and I can't believe that it's still not fixed. (I'll explain it below)

 

 

CLASS BALANCE and PETS & CRYSTALS need to be done first : 

 

CLASS BALANCE  

As suggested by some ppl, SKILL BALANCE need to be considered with the CLASS BALANCE formulas. 

There are some clear suggestions to make each char balanced ingame. 

Yeah, I guess it's not easy as it seems. 

But when I saw the amazing features they made ingame, that must take time but doesn't seems hard.

 

PETS & CRYSTALS

 

 

Pets & crystals are kinda useless in SS atm. They die very easy. 

So, if you want to play or if you like ranger, you HAVE TO use a PRS/MS to tank for you since Pets & crystals that's is suppose to tank for you are not able to. (SL Map is good example for that)

 

I never see in any game that, you have to use 2 chars to be able to play. What's the aim for that?

It's just very annoying and the game play is nonsense.

 

So, unfortunately,  some people have to use a char that they don't have to be able to exp....
On a game, each people have their preference (Rangers, melee, magic....)but It's hard to play a char that you like atm. 

 

People told me it's about donation?

I don't think so. Because, of course, some player will buy a PRS. But at the end, most of them get boring in dual mode. So, for a long period playing it's not good.

Also, you have to think about the game play of the game. Being semi-afk in a game it's non sense.... A game is made for distraction, being  fully inside.

I read that "It's cool so we can watch Netflix by playing...". That's is not how I see a game. 

 

BOSS 

 

Recent changes on boss ingame show how people want to play the game with a great game play and not being semi afk (like it was before).

I see a lot more people hunting boss and really appreciate the news system.

I hope its the beginning of some changes to make the game more enjoyable. 

 

 

Thanks,

Clem.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Clem

[M4 82]

19 minutes ago, Clem said:

Hello,

 

First of all, I wouldn't use "nerf" for MS, but "balance". ATM, a 14x MS make twice more dmg than some 16x class. It's very clear that MS is overpowered.

As said before, x1,5 is more than enough since it's a ranger class and as you said, they have to get the advantage.

Since you're talking about class balance, I'll be more general for a fair game :

 

QUICK FIX

The staff are able to change fews things ingame without making a maintenance. Or even a quick maintenance doesn't looks complicated for them nowadays, such as the last one they made(Quick maintenance with some news features).

 

So, I would like to know, why it takes so long time to :

-Balance MS ?

-Fix pets & crystals ? --> This one is a big problem ATM ......................... and I can't believe that it's still not fixed. (I'll explain it below)

 

 

CLASS BALANCE and PETS & CRYSTALS need to be done first : 

 

CLASS BALANCE  

As suggested by some ppl, SKILL BALANCE need to be considered with the CLASS BALANCE formulas. 

There are some clear suggestions to make each char balanced ingame. 

Yeah, I guess it's not easy as it seems. 

But when I saw the amazing features they made ingame, that must take time but doesn't seems hard.

 

PETS & CRYSTALS

 

 

Pets & crystals are kinda useless in SS atm. They die very easy. 

So, if you want to play or if you like ranger, you HAVE TO use a PRS/MS to tank for you since Pets & crystals that's is suppose to tank for you are not able to. (SL Map is good example for that)

 

I never see in any game that, you have to use 2 chars to be able to play. What's the aim for that?

It's just very annoying and the game play is nonsense.

 

So, unfortunately,  some people have to use a char that they don't have to be able to exp....
On a game, each people have their preference (Rangers, melee, magic....)but It's hard to play a char that you like atm. 

 

People told me it's about donation?

I don't think so. Because, of course, some player will buy a PRS. But at the end, most of them get boring in dual mode. So, for a long period playing it's not good.

Also, you have to think about the game play of the game. Being semi-afk in a game it's non sense.... A game is made for distraction, being  fully inside.

I read that "It's cool so we can watch Netflix by playing...". That's is not how I see a game. 

 

BOSS 

 

Recent changes on boss ingame show how people want to play the game with a great game play and not being semi afk (like it was before).

I see a lot more people hunting boss and really appreciate the news system.

I hope its the beginning of some changes to make the game more enjoyable. 

 

 

Thanks,

Clem.

 

 

nb ? 

[suesue 234]

24 minutes ago, Clem said:

 

Pets & crystals are kinda useless in SS atm. They die very easy. 

So, if you want to play or if you like ranger, you HAVE TO use a PRS/MS to tank for you since Pets & crystals that's is suppose to tank for you are not able to. (SL Map is good example for that)

Pet HP is not problem here. The problem is aggro system. We can replace normal pet by Boss xtals. But when you attack mob, they will attack you instead pet. 

[Clem 1,241]

6 hours ago, jo0okr said:

If you talk about percentage then am sure more than 50% in server is KS

Since you are talking about %. Let's go for it.

 

Check the link below to have an idea : 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, suesue said:

Pet HP is not problem here. The problem is aggro system. We can replace normal pet by Boss xtals. But when you attack mob, they will attack you instead pet. 

Agreed, need to change this too. But need also to take the HP in consideration, since they are dining fast. As suggested by someone, PETS should have a HP/ABS formula based on the lvl of the player.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Clem

[Lyseria 1,808]

I understand your thinking, and I do agree with some points, but some things has to be considered too.

 

7 hours ago, wolf0119 said:

Nerfing the ms is just patching  the class gap problem, not solving it, since whenever a class is nerfed, a new one comes out to take the top, reason why I consider that the solution is to buff the rest of the classes until reducing the gap to something acceptable, clearly they cannot put everyone on the same level, because that would be illogical, since it should be considered that the classes are different and always open some better in certain aspects, but all with their unique strength, this is what makes them special.

Yep, totally agree with your point of being pointless nerfing automs, because the #2 will be the #1 as always happens. But, in this specifc case of AutoMS, (remember it's an alternative build of Mechanicians) this build stands out all ranged classes and builds. If they have the same dmg of atalantas and archers ppl will complain as well saying it's unfair a simple alternative build being equal to an entire class build.

 

I used to follow the char's descriptions as a guideline of his main purpose in the game. That's why this small info is crucial to set the role of classes in the game. In mechanician's guide we have

 

 

      One of the most unique classes on the continent of Priston, a mechanician is a master of mechanical objects. Endlessly researching about mechanics, they have developed a set of skills like no other. Mechanicians tend to have heavy built suits and are nonetheless very aggressive. 

 

 

 

 

They actually have 4 feasible builds: Power, Tanker, Spark and Auto.

 

How many Power mechs do you see at Shadow Sanctuary? I've tested it once as you can see in the video bellow.

 

 

Wartale became the only server with a feasible automs build, this was a plus in our server and attracted many players, and still. Hence we can see now this unbalanced build outdates archers and atalantas.

 

Better wait for staff's changes, but something that worries me is the delay of action quoted many times here. Simple tweaks can be done and undone without shutdown, and they have test servers as well, but this HUGE gap between AutoMS stands for years, now it's exposed to everyone due SS's launch.

 

2 hours ago, suesue said:

The problem is aggro system.

The new aggro system is great, this AI applied to mobs works well. It's a little of logic, if the caster summons 2 skeletons, aren't you going to kill the caster instead his minions?

Edited May 8, 2020 by Lyseria

[Palhacitos 478]

Let's get to the crux.
do you think all the MS that are in the ranking below, so why do they like the MS class or just because of the extremely high damage compared to others?

What needs to be done is a balance in "all" classes, thus making them more enjoyable for players.

 

3 hours ago, Clem said:

I see a lot more people hunting boss and really appreciate the news system.

I wasn't going to talk about that point, but I saw this photo and I was impressed, I would like to share it with all of you.

 

3 hours ago, Lyseria said:

Quick feedback about lotto loot system on Super Boss Monsters.

 

Just awesome, ppl asking for help in trade chat and parties from different clans hunting together.

 

Babel:

 

 

 

Draxos:

 

[ChainLancer 98]

2 minutes ago, Palhacitos said:

Let's get to the crux.
do you think all the MS that are in the ranking below, so why do they like the MS class or just because of the extremely high damage compared to others?

What needs to be done is a balance in "all" classes, thus making them more enjoyable for players.

 

I wasn't going to talk about that point, but I saw this photo and I was impressed, I would like to share it with all of you.

 

1 again i said that's this statistic (photo) is really not enough.

 

There are many MS.

 

Look for DIQ. 13x lv.

 

SL in the past and SS now (14x lv) to see how strong he is.

 

[Palhacitos 478]

Just now, ChainLancer said:

1 again i said that's this statistic (photo) is really not enough.

 

There are many MS.

 

Look for DIQ. 13x lv.

 

SL in the past and SS now (14x lv) to see how strong he is.

 

yes i agree with you, this is just a base.
I think we all know about the large amount of MS in the game.

 

let's think about proportion.

imagine if the ranking was up to 1000.
probably the per cent of Ms would only increase.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Palhacitos

[wolf0119 267]

One of the reasons why I made this topic is to be able to understand the perception of the rest of the players, with their unique class, so I thank everyone for their comments, now I see things in a different way ^^

 

 

modified the post, added new ideas that I liked, I have put a *, to identify them more easily

 

Although the focus of the topic has not changed (similar class balance in terms of exp efficiency), I think the post improved a bit, and my perception of them.

 

this is post for the community, not for the staff, do not hesitate to comment on your ideas ^^

[Cloud 167]

One things for sure Assassins need more focus to be better. So little people playing the class. I feel lonely ☹️ hehe.

 

agreed though mechs are a little over powered in comparison to other classes but as also stated to play mech at 144+ required an additional account to tank ?

 

id say Pikes need more of a focus too by the looks of it as it’s a dying class.

[Saikan1 64]

18 minutes ago, Cloud said:

One things for sure Assassins need more focus to be better. So little people playing the class. I feel lonely ☹️ hehe.

 

agreed though mechs are a little over powered in comparison to other classes but as also stated to play mech at 144+ required an additional account to tank ?

 

id say Pikes need more of a focus too by the looks of it as it’s a dying class.

ass is a very good class these days ... the problem is the prejudice that people have with the class. I created a lvl 1 ass and I am currently at 143 and what can I say? It's an amazing class, the AOE damage is one of the best in the game, I can hunt super boss without any problems with the help of my prs (vl + healing). The problem is the players themselves, several times I was denied to DiQ for being ass and the slot is only for MG or SS even when the damage of ASS is equivalent to these class if the player knows how to play it well.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Saikan1