Why be a ranger today?

[Lyseria 1,826]

14 minutes ago, Molaxx said:

 

What to log my magician and see if i´m lying?  

There's a big difference between the Magician's class and your Mage.

 

30 minutes ago, Molaxx said:

MG have 450/500 HP

I had the opportunity to test @cux mage at SS, with full spirit build he got 782HP, maybe something is wrong with your build.

 

30 minutes ago, Molaxx said:

MAGE IS TOO WEAK in PVP

About PvP, it is already has been proven that with the 70% crit back, mages with 142 staff can deal a high damage with DR skill on 1x1, and I don't even need to talk about his AoE skills...

Edited July 29, 2020 by Lyseria

[Merenda 740]

5 hours ago, Hellnation said:

Hey,

I saw you wrote some good points but haven't written any changes that would benefit archers.

some background:

I'm played archer in many PT servers, including ept and a edit custom items archer PT. - for over 15 years. I guess like most of us.

 

before i start - * Gm said to change our AS build so she can survive more - but lose atk pow (Aka not be a pure AS) - this is something I 10000% do not agree with as archer need to be a glass canon. 

 

now for my suggestion - adding up to your suggestion - ONLY FOR AS - I NEVER PLAYED ATA.

our beloved archer need some changes- 

Base Hp  - right now as LVL 155 archer. with all DNT items, with everything perfect, boss set 3 and enigma amulet +2 perf - I have only 980 HP.

980 hp as you all know it, nothing much - 1 hit in BC, 1-2 hits in SS, SL.. etc.. I find my self spend more gold on rebirth than anything else in game. 

I would say increase base HP or / add 2-4 points of HP each 10 agility added.

Perforation -  so perfo is THE skill for AS - supposed to deal massive amount of dmg and crit, for some reason in this server they nerfed it to a point this skill is useless and gave us bomb shot instead which makes us die x10 more because cant deactivate the skill.

Any way right now AS has like 2 skills she can use, and its seems like MS taken the archer spot against mobs.

I would suggest - make 2 different stats one for pvp and one for pve.

Armor - make "Ranger Cuepy" - which only 3 class can use - rangers as this is the most common armor for rangers this day. - add a little bit of block, abs and defense to it - and now rangers can "survive" a bit more. - funny that 120 prs have more defense and abs than a ranger 155 with full dnt set. 

 Wind arrow - this is supposed to be 1vs1 skill against mobs, right now not worth to use as bomb shot kill faster. - i would say - add 20-30% dmg to pve.

Pheonix Speed -  ok so about BC - we cant survive without phoenix shield, no matter what. It helps! but, the -40% atk rtg is just not worth it, you miss EVERYTHING in bc, doesn't matter what lvl. and its funny - SS hits the most in BC while RANGERS need to hit the most as they have the most ATK rtg.

I dont see it happened here. i would say - remove the 40% and do like "-2500 atk rtg". because the more you have atk rtg the less atk rtg you'll have eventually when you use this skill.

 

I have tons more suggestion but I know they wont be seeing so. this is for now. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for contributing numbers! I am afraid to list numbers since we do not even know if Staff intends to make these classes viable again, or if the disappearance of Rangers is something really desired.

 

Perforation is Archer's "postcard". Due to the heavy nerfs that the class has been carrying for years, Perforation was the only way to keep Archer playable; But they overnerfed the skill at the limit.

 

About Glass Cannon Archer Build, when some Archers started to reach 500+ Kills / Siege War:

 

That's the reason why people called Perforation an "OP" skill (sorry for the quotes, but it is not possible to consider a build that will make your character die by literally 1 hit of any class in the game, as something OP, even causing a lot of damage), today we face much more frustrating situations in Siege War in terms of AoE.

 

And it is not because Mages are OP, but simply because all classes have been absurdly nerfed. There were dozens of Archers active in the game, especially on Siege War days, why did only 2-3 do that amount of kills? When someone has a certain experience with the character, build it in a way that they gamble everything on damage, and have good support from the Clan, that's what happens.

 

 

I think Archer is the character with the highest Skill Cap of the game, which is why it may be so difficult to balance, and so many people complain. A new Archer doesn't have much effect, but an experienced Archer makes the class been nerf. It is an 8 or 80 situation.

 

 

Regarding the suggestions, in my opinion, I believe that Archer needs improvements in Phoenix Shot, to the point that it really makes the class the biggest DPS in the game, since it is the most fragile class in the game.

 

I don't believe they can fix Perforation, because as I mentioned in the beginning of the first post... Unfortunately there are people who have serious traumas with Archers, and in no way accept to die by the class; Whether it's a female class, or because they died a lot by Pro Archers in the past, there are several possibilities. And that gets in the way of balancing class x.x '

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Merenda

[kamuynoturno 291]

The God of Knights 

[kenibok 1,072]

2 hours ago, Merenda said:

I don't believe they can fix Perforation, because as I mentioned in the beginning of the first post... Unfortunately there are people who have serious traumas with Archers, and in no way accept to die for the class; Whether it's a female class, or because they died a lot for Pro Archers in the past, there are several possibilities. And that gets in the way of balancing class x.x '

 

I’ve tried to think of a normal reason to the amount of toxicity and fear towards the class and i have only got to this same conclusion

[Lev 323]

3 hours ago, Merenda said:

That's the reason why people called Perforation an "OP" skill (sorry for the quotes, but it is not possible to consider a build that will make your character die by literally 1 hit of any class in the game, as something OP, even causing a lot of damage), today we face much more frustrating situations in Siege War in terms of AoE.

 

And it is not because Mages are OP, but simply because all classes have been absurdly nerfed. There were dozens of Archers active in the game, especially on Siege War days, why did only 2-3 do that amount of kills? When someone has a certain experience with the character, build it in a way that they gamble everything on damage, and have good support from the Clan, that's what happens.

any class that has no damage reduction in AOE skills in pvp  will have a lot of impact in sw, even if u dont have any idea abt how to play the class. Before the problem was AS and ATA, which were fixed/nerfed, now mgs, which remains with an untouchable AOE. 
 

As nerf or fix (depends on ur point of view) just transfered the problem to be honest. If u want to bring back perfo dmg, better ask for every class to have the AOE opportunity in pvp (thats what i call fair), and u will have +1 from me ?
 

[kamuynoturno 291]

13 minutes ago, Lev said:

any class that has no damage reduction in AOE skills in pvp  will have a lot of impact in sw, even if u dont have any idea abt how to play the class. Before the problem was AS and ATA, which were fixed/nerfed, now mgs, which remains with an untouchable AOE. 
 

As nerf or fix (depends on ur point of view) just transfered the problem to be honest. If u want to bring back perfo dmg, better ask for every class to have the AOE opportunity in pvp (thats what i call fair), and u will have +1 from me ?
 

AS and ATS hit 1.5k in aoe, wizard hits 300-400 you guys made a great comparison

[Lev 323]

5 minutes ago, kamuynoturno said:

AS and ATS hit 1.5k in aoe, wizard hits 300-400 you guys made a great comparison

300-400 twice. It's not a matter of comparasion, im just saying that better have no AOE, and solve all this problem, then with time, make a better balance, dont u agree? 

[kamuynoturno 291]

4 minutes ago, Lev said:

300-400 twice. It's not a matter of comparasion, im just saying that better have no AOE, and solve all this problem, then with time, make a better balance, dont u agree? 

I think the problem of Our PVP was never the AOE, and yes the Players who never want to learn something new, That SAME SW was won virtually in the skill 1x1 , PVP changes should be exclusively the choice of STAFF, because everyone will always want the Best for their Class

[- D E A T H S T R O K E - 1,764]

2 hours ago, Lev said:

300-400 twice. It's not a matter of comparasion, im just saying that better have no AOE, and solve all this problem, then with time, make a better balance, dont u agree? 

It won't fix any problem either, it'll just transfer the problem to Lightning sword/Roar, no AoE skills = stuns won't be canceled so often ....or wartornado + spark .... or ice meteorite... by the end of the day, there'll be always something to be nerfed.

My opinion is, instead of nerfing everything and transferring problems, AoE skills with Target that were already nerfed, perfuration, storm jav, phantom nail, and so on, should do something like 80% on the main target and 50% splash damage, in this way, using AoE skills could still be used as chip damage that can't miss to finish off low hp players, and still be balanced on Sw

[DarkLink64 921]

4 hours ago, - D E A T H S T R O K E - said:

It won't fix any problem either, it'll just transfer the problem to Lightning sword/Roar, no AoE skills = stuns won't be canceled so often ....or wartornado + spark .... or ice meteorite... by the end of the day, there'll be always something to be nerfed.

My opinion is, instead of nerfing everything and transferring problems, AoE skills with Target that were already nerfed, perfuration, storm jav, phantom nail, and so on, should do something like 80% on the main target and 50% splash damage, in this way, using AoE skills could still be used as chip damage that can't miss to finish off low hp players, and still be balanced on Sw

A higher damage on the target, and reduced splash damage is a concept that I do enjoy.

However there are some AoE skills that hits twice on the main target, some can even critically strike. Impulsion, Bombshot and Ciclone are skills that comes into my mind. I'm sure they'll be problematic.

I would agree with said idea if the target itself could defend/block/evade the attack, but that would kill the point of using an AoE skill to begin with.

I'd rather tone down all AoE from PvP and then, focus on 1v1. Balance will be never possible to achieve if we have too many variables into play. AoE is clearly broken and should be addressed quickly.

Then, 1v1 it's easier to figure it out. I can calculate overall void chance of any class, so the overall accuracy of landing a hit. With that in mind, determining the burst potential and DPS is much easier.

Edited July 29, 2020 by DarkLink64

[Hellnation 239]

7 hours ago, Merenda said:

 

Thank you for contributing numbers! I am afraid to list numbers since we do not even know if Staff intends to make these classes viable again, or if the disappearance of Rangers is something really desired.

 

Perforation is Archer's "postcard". Due to the heavy nerfs that the class has been carrying for years, Perforation was the only way to keep Archer playable; But they overnerfed the skill at the limit.

 

About Glass Cannon Archer Build, when some Archers started to reach 500+ Kills / Siege War:

 

That's the reason why people called Perforation an "OP" skill (sorry for the quotes, but it is not possible to consider a build that will make your character die by literally 1 hit of any class in the game, as something OP, even causing a lot of damage), today we face much more frustrating situations in Siege War in terms of AoE.

 

And it is not because Mages are OP, but simply because all classes have been absurdly nerfed. There were dozens of Archers active in the game, especially on Siege War days, why did only 2-3 do that amount of kills? When someone has a certain experience with the character, build it in a way that they gamble everything on damage, and have good support from the Clan, that's what happens.

 

 

I think Archer is the character with the highest Skill Cap of the game, which is why it may be so difficult to balance, and so many people complain. A new Archer doesn't have much effect, but an experienced Archer makes the class been nerf. It is an 8 or 80 situation.

 

 

Regarding the suggestions, in my opinion, I believe that Archer needs improvements in Phoenix Shot, to the point that it really makes the class the biggest DPS in the game, since it is the most fragile class in the game.

 

I don't believe they can fix Perforation, because as I mentioned in the beginning of the first post... Unfortunately there are people who have serious traumas with Archers, and in no way accept to die by the class; Whether it's a female class, or because they died a lot by Pro Archers in the past, there are several possibilities. And that gets in the way of balancing class x.x '

 

the easiet way to balance a skill is to give it 2 stats. 1 for pve 1 for pvp.

thats it. no need nerfing

[kenibok 1,072]

Phoenix shot could have its old dmg back or something in between

- burning damage for pve, currently bshot is the same and less mp/sp consumption

 

Perforation 100% on target, 80 ~ 70% on sorroundings

- if its getting no fix, maybe allow to be able to Crit with phspeed, its not even hitting half☹️ 

 

Solar arrow skill is nice, but too slow

and last 2 are all archer has

 

Split javelin seems to be still bug, never makes 3 hits, never crits no matter opponent, otherwise how it used to be was perfect 

 

Poison javelin faster attack interval for poison dmg, 2x area since it usually hits only 1 target 

 

Frost javelin increase freeze strength to 50%

 

some ideas, if we put pve in equation there's avalanche, w arrow, golden falcon, split also, all atas aoe

[Potetenn 55]

2014 archers ?️

[xkintaro 1,908]

if we increase the range a little more of Ats and As? it would make the class more unique.

All ranger class and magic ones, have similar range area, if ats and as have a little more, something like 20% or 30% more range

[Merenda 740]

26 minutes ago, xkintaro said:

if we increase the range a little more of Ats and As? it would make the class more unique.

All ranger class and magic ones, have similar range area, if ats and as have a little more, something like 20% or 30% more range

 

I don't think it would help that much, considering:

 

1- The size of PvP maps;

2- FoV settings;

3- Rendering depending on range;

4- Mounts;

5- Almost negative resistances. (There is no problem being fragile in this way, as long as they are the biggest DPS in game, but that's not what happens)

 

As a personal experience, a Knight with Sword 142 +24 (1H) deals much more damage than an Archer Pure Build with Bow 138 +24.

 

Ironic as it may seem, Archer and Ata currently participate in the group of classes that deals the least damage in PvP.

 

Unfortunately we can't compare them to Prs, as Prs scores and kills a lot more in Siege War x.x '

Edited August 6, 2020 by Merenda

[HollyShot 1,003]

1 hour ago, xkintaro said:

if we increase the range a little more of Ats and As? it would make the class more unique.

All ranger class and magic ones, have similar range area, if ats and as have a little more, something like 20% or 30% more range

that wouldnt change anything since now with mounts any male can reach the rangers instantly

[japs 1]

On 7/28/2020 at 2:07 PM, Merenda said:

Hi! First of all, I would like to explain that I am no longer a Ranger, but anyway, I am sensitive to the situation of these two classes in particular.

 

Yes, I know that we have a lot of "ranger haters" on the server, either because of an ego conflict where they feel offended by dying for a female character, or maybe because they really do not perform well in PvP against these two classes.

 

Unfortunately this happens, but even though I am sure that some will come to give free rage simply because it is about Rangers, I cannot remain silent about what has been happening. That said, let's get to the point.
 

Would you be Ranger today? No? Why? Here is my experience with the class on the server...

 

I love doing two things here, Siege War and Exp. I look for and study every single detail, mainly about Siege War, so that each day I try to improve more. In the "Priston structure" we all know the semi-meta that occurs during Siege War... Rangers have always been HRHR (High Risk, High Reward) characters. But unfortunately the "High Reward" part doesn't happen. The situation of the Rangers today is that, characters with armor and shield dealing much more damage than an pure Archer or Ata, being that these two pure classes die in practically 1 hit for any character up to 15 levels below.

 

Today, playing Ranger is frustrating, even if you love the class. I gave up on Ranger for the moment because I have a relatively good level and items, but still deals less damage than almost all classes, and was by far the most fragile class in the game. I am now in a class considered easier and more basic to play, but at least I perform much better in Siege War.

 

Archer and Ata today are literally a joke. After the constant and heavy nerfs that both classes received, I wouldn't be scared if an Archer or Ata 170 failed to beat a Mech or Knight 153. It is not a nerf request for other classes, it makes no sense to nerf all other classes until they get weak like Archer and Ata; It is a request to find a way to put these classes in their proper positions. If we check the Ranking... Atas don't even need to comment, and Archers, only two of them play PvP actively.

 

Now on to the reasons for not being a Ranger today:

 

1- Exp? We have better Exp classes. (and that's fair, not a complaint);

 

2- PvP? You can be a Knight / Mech, do a lot more damage than any ranger, and still be one of the most tanker classes in the game; You can be a Pike / Fighter / Assassin, and have the ability to nullify a target effectively and quickly;

 

3- Siege War? You can be a Mage and literally destroy any class at the event; Or a Pris, and score very well while giving great support to your Clan; Or even a Shaman which is good for both PvP and Siege War.

 

None of these points mentioned above is wrong! This is the fun part of the game, each class having its peculiarities and functions! But where are the Archers and Atas? They don't fit into anything there, because they are inferior to all other classes at all points in the game.

 

 

This is a topic asking for minimal attention to the server's Rangers, but I will also leave a "global suggestion" for the case:

 

-> Transform Rangers back into High Risk High Reward classes. If a Ranger is pure build and dies in 1 hit for anyone, it must have the highest damage in the game to make up for it.

 

Thanks in advance, and Avante Wartale! =^---^=

I totally agree.

[kenibok 1,072]

On 8/6/2020 at 12:48 PM, xkintaro said:

if we increase the range a little more of Ats and As? it would make the class more unique.

All ranger class and magic ones, have similar range area, if ats and as have a little more, something like 20% or 30% more range

Its not range its damage whats lacking, archer can only kill when having critical hits but has a total critical of 38~40, damage she has with no criticals is no real danger to any class

atalantas lack it all, the currently have vg to attack only, split javelin is 100% failing 1~3 hits and apparently no longer crit, poison javelin has low dmg and slow hits, pikeman’s poison is faster and stronger, but pikeman clearly does have nice dmg, something to look into

[Merenda 740]

5 hours ago, kenibok said:

Its not range its damage whats lacking, archer can only kill when having critical hits but has a total critical of 38~40, damage she has with no criticals is no real danger to any class

atalantas lack it all, the currently have vg to attack only, split javelin is 100% failing 1~3 hits and apparently no longer crit, poison javelin has low dmg and slow hits, pikeman’s poison is faster and stronger, but pikeman clearly does have nice dmg, something to look into

 

Yes, unfortunately Rangers currently represents 0 risks in PvP.

 

In the current patch, they are focused by being more "free kill" than usual, not because they are the biggest DPS.

 

I dare to say that they are now the worst DPS. Considering that they do the same or less damage than any meele, but dies infinitely more times x.x'

Edited August 8, 2020 by Merenda

[DarkLink64 921]

6 hours ago, Merenda said:

I dare to say that they are now the worst DPS. 

Worst is definitely the approppriate word comming from you. The worst pvp player, the worst archer ever, and perhaps the worst Knight. 
No wonder the worst, half-baked ideas and suggestions always comes from the worst PvP player, with the worst technical knowledge of the game.

You bought account already high leveled, also you changed class. Let true Archer players, that kept playing the class, not  temporary Archers that played her just to abuse Perforation, voice their opinions.


A 4th grade can do some basic math and prove you that her damage per second is by far from the worst. Well, you must be the worst at math too. How appropriate.

Edited August 9, 2020 by DarkLink64

[Merenda 740]

13 hours ago, DarkLink64 said:

Worst is definitely the approppriate word comming from you. The worst pvp player, the worst archer ever, and perhaps the worst Knight. 
No wonder the worst, half-baked ideas and suggestions always comes from the worst PvP player, with the worst technical knowledge of the game.

You bought account already high leveled, also you changed class. Let true Archer players, that kept playing the class, not  temporary Archers that played her just to abuse Perforation, voice their opinions.


A 4th grade can do some basic math and prove you that her damage per second is by far from the worst. Well, you must be the worst at math too. How appropriate.

 

Sorry for the delay, I was at Siege War, in game things work a little differently than Forums.

 

Thanks for your contribution, we're all together for Rangers back in the game! =^---^=

Edited August 9, 2020 by Merenda

[Saikan1 64]

14 hours ago, DarkLink64 said:

Let true Archer players, that kept playing the class, not  temporary Archers that played her just to abuse Perforation, voice their opinions.

Good luck finding one... 

Wartale desperately needs a complete change in pvp, the actual system sucks. It's just a stupid rng pvp where the first one that lands two consecutive hits or one critical + hit, kills everyone. 

 

 Before talking about fixing a specific class, fix the current broken game formulas that doesn't support age +24 + items 142/144. 

 

PvP was way more fun when we had only 136 items. Builds and personal skills made the difference.

 

When wartale fix this, call me and I'll show you how a true Archer player balances the class properly. 

[DarkLink64 921]

3 hours ago, Saikan1 said:

Before talking about fixing a specific class, fix the current broken game formulas that doesn't support age +24 + items 142/144. 

 

PvP was way more fun when we had only 136 items. Builds and personal skills made the difference.

Wise words.

I'm tired to say that current PvP - as a whole - is horrible. That's why I stopped PvPing.

New items, Aging +24, mounts... So many stuff broke the PvP as a whole.
 

I always said too that the glory days were when we had 136 itens only. No Centlom Bracelets and Draxos Boots pay-to-wins, not absurd high status from itens, no nothing so broken.

[alberto47 44]

knigth now is poor  no damge no critical i cant use 2 hand and easy die and when i use 1 hand no kill vary very sad