Please discuss and/or explain....

[beaker1337 0]

About your high level quests' reward ideas: Genius.

 

By the way, I saw some of you talking about priestesses lack of tanking compared to other classes (which is true). Here's what's gonna come on the next patch:

 

-> VL will be fixed. This is how it works at the moment: +30% total HP and +30% damage reduction (that means 30% of the damage gets "absorbed"). This hidden formula will be removed and VL will give +30% total HP only for balance purposes.

 

-> New ABS formula for Mages and PRS: Every 40 spirit = 0.7 ABS.

 

-> New HP formula for PRS: ( Level *2.8 ) + ( Health *2.8 )

 

-> New PvP ABS formula: The final received damage is subtracted with your abs *1 (it used to be *0.3) to balance the lack of VL.

 

 

This quote was taken from Zero's Suggestion topic and I did not want go too far off topic there... So I'm reposting in its own topic.

 

The main thing that concerns me is to fix the lack of tanking in Priestess compared to other classes, they have decided to get rid of the "hidden abs in vl" so VL will only be worth 30% hp boost.

 

So point number one if you remove something from everyone nothing changes Priestess will still "tank less compared to other classes".

 

Next point, they added 40spr = 0.7 abs to help compensate. Ok, this is a good thing its an infinite increase over what we had, which was 0. At lvl 116 I have 139 abs and on spr. I have around 400 stat points so I will move up to 146, is that enough to even stand in FT2....as I can with vl right now.

 

Third point, the 30% hp increase will help only a very little in PvE once you start losing hp it kind of decreases rapidly, so is it more an emergency thing, that gives you another hit before re-potting? It still sounds like it will help in PvP a lot more, so we are still VL sluts(we don't get paid) there.

 

I would say that there are two things that will come out of this:

1. The xp grind will now get slower as people move to slightly lower training grounds where they can tank.

2. More people will donate to change char from Prs.

 

P.S. If this was a way to try and pull more gold out of the game, it may not work as anticipated due to number 1.

 

these are only my thoughts.... feel free to agree or disagree. Valid arguments may/can change my opinion... but right now I'm not a big fan of these changes.

[Immortal 40]

2. More people will donate to change char from Prs.

I belive, this is what they are aiming for?

 

About new patch, i like it. It's always good to have something new.

[beaker1337 0]

2. More people will donate to change char from Prs.

I belive, this is what they are aiming for?

 

About new patch, i like it. It's always good to have something new.

 

Always is a strong word just because its new doesn't make it good. It just makes it new.

[Crius 0]

Like I said in that thread, I really doubt this is an improvement. More HP helps, but losing -30% damage is huge. Remove that, and we're talking a 40-50% HP boost just to be able to survive the same number of hits, without even taking the increased need for potions into account. 6-8 extra abs is nice, but ultimately I don't think it's going to make much of a difference.

 

So it seems to me like priestess will be weaker and considerably less attractive to parties, remaining good against undead but pretty much useless for everything else. I understand why VL was changed, but it's a pretty hefty price to pay. Then again, with the math and information available for this game being as dubious as it is, perhaps I'm way off. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

[beaker1337 0]

Like I said in that thread, I really doubt this is an improvement. More HP helps, but losing -30% damage is huge. Remove that, and we're talking a 40-50% HP boost just to be able to survive the same number of hits, without even taking the increased need for potions into account. 6-8 extra abs is nice, but ultimately I don't think it's going to make much of a difference.

 

So it seems to me like priestess will be weaker and considerably less attractive to parties, remaining good against undead but pretty much useless for everything else. I understand why VL was changed, but it's a pretty hefty price to pay. Then again, with the math and information available for this game being as dubious as it is, perhaps I'm way off. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

I agree with you... I dont really see much difference it will make to higher lvl Prs in hunting (crystals do the tanking) or in PvP ( where they cant do much) but for all Prs in xp'ing its going to hurt alot. And now the lil guy below 12x is gonna have  one hell of a time gaining lvls.

[topher 0]

This is for balance purpose, but maybe they didn't think too much in the effects that this will cause. Priest can't tank without this hidden bonus, and add more hp won't balance the lack of VL. I'd increase abs formula for prs much more, after this, if it seems OP, just decrease it.

Every 40 spirit = 0.7 ABS.

Most of priestesses don't waste many points in spirit, because doesn't make any difference in attack, CL still sucks. So I'd go with every 10 health = 0.6 ABS. My priest have 390 health, this will mean a 23,4 abs boost, witch is ok for balance the lack of VL in priest, but won't solve all the problem. In any map previous AD1, priest will still easily die, so I think it's good a boost in muspell: Lvl 10, Added Evasion: 25%.

I also recomend a big boost on archers, I can't imagine how weak they'll become after this patch. And of course, decrease mobs damage.

 

-> New ABS formula for Mages and PRS: Every 40 spirit = 0.7 ABS.

 

-> New HP formula for PRS: ( Level *2.8 ) + ( Health *2.8 )

 

-> New PvP ABS formula: The final received damage is subtracted with your abs *1 (it used to be *0.3) to balance the lack of VL.

The rest is ok for me.

[beaker1337 0]

This is for balance purpose, but maybe they didn't think too much in the effects that this will cause. Priest can't tank without this hidden bonus, and add more hp won't balance the lack of VL. I'd increase abs formula for prs much more, after this, if it seems OP, just decrease it.

Every 40 spirit = 0.7 ABS.

Most of priestesses don't waste many points in spirit, because doesn't make any difference in attack, CL still sucks. So I'd go with every 10 health = 0.6 ABS. My priest have 390 health, this will mean a 23,4 abs boost, witch is ok for balance the lack of VL in priest, but won't solve all the problem. In any map previous AD1, priest will still easily die, so I think it's good a boost in muspell: Lvl 10, Added Evasion: 25%.

I also recomend a big boost on archers, I can't imagine how weak they'll become after this patch. And of course, decrease mobs damage.

 

-> New ABS formula for Mages and PRS: Every 40 spirit = 0.7 ABS.

 

-> New HP formula for PRS: ( Level *2.8 ) + ( Health *2.8 )

 

-> New PvP ABS formula: The final received damage is subtracted with your abs *1 (it used to be *0.3) to balance the lack of VL.

The rest is ok for me.

I'm the exact opposite, I only have about 100 in health more seems like a waste. As long as I keep up on VL I dont have a problem staying alive. Its when I get distracted that I run into a problem. But, more health wont help me there.

 

So, the spr = abs will help but it wont compensate for what is being lost. It will make a shaky tanker worse. Even MGS of same lvl with min health build using ES tank better than PRS do. And that is now. PRS should tank better, considering they dont have their power.

With a VL nerf the MGS will still be able to xp in ft2 and the PRS will have to go to what..... i2?

 

and this is with 115 gears bell mixed and gaunts 110 enig mixed, 2 vrings donated oredo mix. all mp(def) mixes. and I still cant take but a couple of hits in any md hs. So, forget ft where I should be able to xp.

 

And CL is part of the PRS defense the more they pot the more they get hit, as long as they are spamming CL the longer they live.

[mai801chan 0]

Since PRS points are primarily distributed to Health and SPR. One way the new formula can be fair to both builds is that we could have 40 spr = .35 abs and 40 health = .35 abs.

 

And please, definitely increase PRS HP formula. Speaking of nerfing defense, I do believe offense is the best defense. PRS is pretty weak as is, I feel that nerfing one of their survival skill calls for compensation in atk power. Now, t5 is coming out, everything is subjected to change. I just hope that it will be enough to compensate this loss.

 

 

P/S: thank you for bringing this to public attention. I don't follow every threads, and this is certainly worthy news of discussion

[Null 2]

Nobody said that monsters' offensive power wouldn't be nerfed.

Then again, I'm not saying it will. I'm just saying that it could happen.

[beaker1337 0]

Nobody said that monsters' offensive power wouldn't be nerfed.

Then again, I'm not saying it will. I'm just saying that it could happen.

True no one has stated if, will, could, should, have, or anything else. what has been stated is VL is getting nerfed, wait not nerfed, altered is better word. And the compensation is not up to par. So in balancing everyone else PRS is going to get screwed and they don't have a forum base big enough to scream "WTF".

[beaker1337 0]

And to top everything else off, we were told before that balance issues would be resolved after T5 release. Not in the middle of. And Mech still have issues from before. So why mess with PRS now?????

[Crius 0]

Nobody said that monsters' offensive power wouldn't be nerfed.

Then again, I'm not saying it will. I'm just saying that it could happen.

 

Okay, let's say that does happen. Say they all do 30% damage less, as VL used to. How will this benefit priestess more than any other class? Okay, so maybe they won't die as soon as a monster sneezes in their general direction, but they will still be weaker compared to every other class relatively speaking. In fact, if anything, it benefits all other classes more, because now they get a guaranteed VL effect at all times at no cost, whereas before they needed a priestess for that. The only good thing they get out of that is that they no longer will be viewed as the "VL whore". No, now they will just be useless (save for anti-undead, which I suspect is going to be a very over-used battlecry for those who like this change in the days to come...).

 

I seriously want to know, save for the current VL and anti-undead skills, what does the priestess have going for it? Their 1vs1 ability is pretty much accepted to be the worst in the entire game from what I can tell. CL does damage comparable to the fighers cyclone strike (even if you only count the static damage), which is widely regarded as the worst AoE in the game. Now they are about to have their survivability reduced, or at best remain close to unchanged, and with that their main attraction for parties. Please tell me I'm missing something here.

[beaker1337 0]

Nobody said that monsters' offensive power wouldn't be nerfed.

Then again, I'm not saying it will. I'm just saying that it could happen.

 

Okay, let's say that does happen. Say they all do 30% damage less, as VL used to. How will this benefit priestess more than any other class? Okay, so maybe they won't die as soon as a monster sneezes in their general direction, but they will still be weaker compared to every other class relatively speaking. In fact, if anything, it benefits all other classes more, because now they get a guaranteed VL effect at all times at no cost, whereas before they needed a priestess for that. The only good thing they get out of that is that they no longer will be viewed as the "VL whore". No, now they will just be useless (save for anti-undead, which I suspect is going to be a very over-used battlecry for those who like this change in the days to come...).

 

I seriously want to know, save for the current VL and anti-undead skills, what does the priestess have going for it? Their 1vs1 ability is pretty much accepted to be the worst in the entire game from what I can tell. CL does damage comparable to the fighers cyclone strike (even if you only count the static damage), which is widely regarded as the worst AoE in the game. Now they are about to have their survivability reduced, or at best remain close to unchanged, and with that their main attraction for parties. Please tell me I'm missing something here.

So far it sounds about right with the exception of "VL whore" we don't get paid So "VL slut" might be better description.

[Null 2]

VL fix won't be done to "mess with PRS".

All the other classes can easily get all the benefits of your most powerful skill while you don't even get anything decent in return. Do you like it that way? Of course not.

 

These changes are meant to improve your class, not make it worse, mate. You just have to be patient. Relax. Just wait and see what's gonna happen for the next few patches.

[beaker1337 0]

-> New PvP ABS formula: The final received damage is subtracted with your abs *1 (it used to be *0.3) to balance the lack of VL.

 

Also, 100 * 0.3 = 30 which is 70% reduction in abs..... VL has had 30% reduction in damage

 

Therefore, if you only wanted to offset the change in VL wouldn't it be closer to... hmmmm 0.6 or 0.7(depends on your math, one way is from *1 the other from *0.3)? you know what number I like 0.7 then its easy to explain. Or go to 1 because it might work, not for an excuse to "balance the [glow=Green,2,300]LACK[/glow] of VL."

 

[Crius 0]

VL fix won't be done to "mess with PRS".

All the other classes can easily get all the benefits of your most powerful skill while you don't even get anything decent in return. Do you like it that way? Of course not.

 

These changes are meant to improve your class, not make it worse, mate. You just have to be patient. Relax. Just wait and see what's gonna happen for the next few patches.

 

I'm not arguing with fixing VL, that's perfectly fine and probably necessary too. My point is that the priestess gets essentially nothing in return. Even if all it was good for was using it on others, at least they were good for something. A priestess does get something in return for the current VL, even if indirectly; they can leech of of parties without anyone complaining. Look at fighters without a VL equivalent and how popular they are in parties (on the other hand, they get better tanking, more HP and far superior 1vs1 abilities).

 

With this change, all I see is the priestess being less or at best equal to what they were before in every area. They'll go from being able to do two things (killing undead and using VL) to one. It benefits everyone else though. Vague unmade promises of future changes that may or may not come to pass at some unspecified date is of little use there. Perhaps they will come and fix everything, but I'm not a big fan of blind faith.

[beaker1337 0]

VL fix won't be done to "mess with PRS".

All the other classes can easily get all the benefits of your most powerful skill while you don't even get anything decent in return. Do you like it that way? Of course not.

 

These changes are meant to improve your class, not make it worse, mate. You just have to be patient. Relax. Just wait and see what's gonna happen for the next few patches.

I'm a patient person, and in the end I have no say as to what is implemented or not..... however, the changes designed to improve PRS class, shouldn't destroy it first. As of now the 2 skills that have any real power are VL and Extinction and now VL will be useless, why not hold off the VL change untill after the "next few patches" until the whole thing is ready, instead of crippling the class in the mean time? I'm not opposed to changes, infact I support them, just not partial or lets start and we may finish, one day. So I say hold the VL fix till whatever else you have is done. Thats all I'm asking.

[Rehv 0]

VL fix won't be done to "mess with PRS".

All the other classes can easily get all the benefits of your most powerful skill while you don't even get anything decent in return. Do you like it that way? Of course not.

 

These changes are meant to improve your class, not make it worse, mate. You just have to be patient. Relax. Just wait and see what's gonna happen for the next few patches.

I'm a patient person, and in the end I have no say as to what is implemented or not..... however, the changes designed to improve PRS class, shouldn't destroy it first. As of now the 2 skills that have any real power are VL and Extinction and now VL will be useless, why not hold off the VL change untill after the "next few patches" until the whole thing is ready, instead of crippling the class in the mean time? I'm not opposed to changes, infact I support them, just not partial or lets start and we may finish, one day. So I say hold the VL fix till whatever else you have is done. Thats all I'm asking.

+913859385938.

 

Or else, this i see some pt in trade chat saying "P> 1 slot ft1 hs (NO FS)" is gonna be like this i see some pt in trade chat saying "P> 1 slot ft1 hs (NO FS OR PRS)"

 

[Zero 0]

As one of the people on the forums who does specialize in priestesses, I'm happy to see such a thread in the mainstream.

 

I have to disagree though with the original poster. The focus is mainly on prs here, when it will affect everyone. Crius has a point that prs will have the weakest defense of all classes afterwards [worse than AS if they use 2h instead of 1h], but everyone is going to be in the same boat. Aside from mech [and maybe FS?], what other class really does decent tanking? Sure, a lot of people will want to point towards a class like KS, but from what I've seen, anything aside from god geared other classes has to pot spam to stay alive in a map like ft1 even [disregard the fact KS is immortal to undead, we're talking on a general basis]. Mech is the only one consistent at actually being able to attack and live without VL.

 

This point in mind, prs are not going to be the only ones complaining with a VL change, since everyone is going to be dying as quick as archers do. The PvE issue will have to be resolved one way or another, there is no way the ensuing mass complaint threads won't grab the staff's attention. The problem is the period between is going to be rough on everyone, especially prs.

 

The VL fix is positive in the long run, uniqueness on a class is critical to its success and I've made that argument countless times. VL was our all in one buff, but it could be cast on anyone, destroying any potential we had. This basically made us an equip item for other classes rather than making us our own class. VL had to be changed for us to improve.

 

I do not agree the best defense is a good offense for prs, all the damage in the world doesn't matter if you don't even live past the spell animation. Prs by nature, is a more defensive minded class while their counterpart MGS is a more offensive minded class [T5 was their FIRST attack buff], it does not make sense to make Prs a glass cannon.

 

I've made a suggestion on other ways to boost prs [including how to protect them in PvP w/o VL], but some of these points are already being addressed. For one, our very next tier5 skill will likely be a very powerful AoE, fixing a lot of our weak damage problems. There is no point wasting time fixing CL to be good, its a limited target skill to begin with and so it could never be a true AoE, you must have unlimited targets for that which CL does not have. Ice meteorite will also freeze enemies [or so I believe I saw so somewhere?], the only AoE ever to have an added effect, even if its damage is not 1st, the freeze will help us tank and support the party over all by slowing everything down while still attacking, a very powerful skill.

 

I gave this example to 3R before, on how I believe prs must work:

 

AoE - 2nd [1st being Mgs]

Tanking - 2nd [1st being mech]

1 v 1 - 8th

 

If you average these categories, you get a perfectly balanced class average of 4, (8 + 2 + 2 = 12 / 3 = 4)]. All classes should be somewhere between 3.5 and 4.5 if they are balanced. The AoE will be fixed with T5 and with that, we only need a tanking boost.

 

Those arguing against the spirit abs boost for a split ratio [hp/spr] I can't imagine why. I doubt you would get a class specific HP stat boost, stats apply to everyone, not just prs. The spirit boost was only meant to be small to begin with, such stat formula changes won't make large differences regardless, those must be addressed by skills. Also, this is to make our offensive stat balanced with agility and strength, which both get clear advantages for large amounts [either high AR or high hp/abs], we have the worst offensive stat of all classes. If you lower it any more than the suggested boost, you're defeating the entire purpose of its implementation.

 

This post is getting long so I'll end it here, if people want to question why I'm against prs 1 v 1 boosts, I'll explain so in the next post.

 

 

 

 

[beaker1337 0]

@Zero I'm glad you disagree... its nice to hear another view point.

The focus of the post is PRS because I play PRS, I have an ata and a pike but I don't play well with them. As a prs I would say I'm a decent player. And i can't comment on others weaknesses from firsthand experience.

So your first point is what other classes have decent tanking capabilities? I have first hand experience with a mage tanking using Energy Shield in FT2 at lvl 116- 117. I was with him and had to leave for 2 hrs and he was still grinding xp alone no vl. and T5 only gave them an attack bonus. I have also been invited to parties of 4 and 5 with no prs  making decent xp, fs,mech,ks and even an as(I will say the archer was outside spawn luring and using hit and run tactics) but I digress they were able to xp sufficiently with out prs. I just made it alot easier. And these are players 116-119 Im pretty sure.

Second, you are correct PRS are not the only ones who will complain about VL change, however not everyone will die as quick as archers. Prs wil,l as will pikes, but as long as they have decent builds most other classes will still be able to xp in mainly the maps they already use. Possibly smaller spawns, if alone. The problem as I see it is, PRS players need to help shape the change to their skills, not everyone else. No offense to any involved.

Third, I disagree more with the implementation than anything else. Why take something away I.e the -30% damage reduction, and give back  40 spr= 0.7 abs and about 1/3 more health. this is not comparable at all. It wouldn't be so harsh if PRS was a PvP char, but they are not. The PvP abs is getting a *0.7 increase to compensate, which affects everyone for the lack of VL. And PRS still gives +30% hp. so we are still an "equip item" in PvP. However, in PvE we get nothing that is remotely comparable. Which brings me to my next point.

I agree with you , the best defense is not a good offense for PRS. Which kinda goes against your next point.

The next T5 skill, which is yet to be released btw, is Ice meteorite. Now ice meteroite is supposed to slow enemies(good offense???), is the only aoe to have an added effect. Ok, true, but i thought we agreed a good offense wasn't a good defense for prs??? And i was under the impression that this skill wasn't designed to replace VL... but you ll are in the loop, not I. I can only comment on what I see, and the info thats given.

 

so in your math we get the great score of 4. We have CL and extinction so we are 7 in Aoe in tanking we are 7/8 after this patch and in 1v1 we are 8. now in my math thats means lets see yea we are dead last in overall score. But it will be fixed in upcoming patches you say! I just ask that it be held off untill there is something to actually help us. if it released with Ice meteore then fine. at least it something.

and on your last point i agree which is why i have the problem with altering VL right now.

[Zero 0]

@beaker

-I don't know, maybe we just see players with vastly different gears, but from what I've seen, the people in ft1 did not exp "efficiently" without a prs. I can't count the number of times I see in trade chat "Slot for ft1 prs" [and other maps as well] and the times I've seen parties lose complete control of the spawn the second their prs leaves, perhaps you just had a very exceptional party. It would probably be better if we got more opinions on this, but the way I saw people use pots, it was far from efficient [mech aside].

 

-I agree with you, prs know best what prs need [and a select few other knowledgeable people]. Other players deserve the right to step in should something become overpowered for sake of keeping a class balanced, but that won't be happening to prs anytime soon with the VL fix. I have several ideas I can suggest on how to address the issue, but we need to see the change in action unfortunately to know exactly what needs to be done [going for the general PvE issue as well]. This is why we probably have to wait a patch or two, we can't know how big a tanking boost we need if the mobs are nerfed to help other classes, because then we won't need as big of a boost as before.

 

-The spirit - abs implementation was NOT designed to be a complete compensation for the loss of VL, so it would be wrong to think of it like that. Do note this was added for everyone, and that mages use spirit primarily as well. This was a separate issue from VL all together that happened to be approved, it just also happens to be in the same patch as well. The loss of VL is a prs specific issue [skill wise], where as the spirit one is not. I was mainly commenting here when people were saying they wanted this boost lowered, and I think we could both agree, lowering it and making it worse would definitely not help us.

 

-Any party with a class buff [magic source, HoV, FoN, VL] can become like an equip item in PvP. The hidden effects of VL however, made our buff on completely different levels from the rest though. With the fix, we won't be any more of an equip item than the other classes with party buffs, so we will be better off for it than before. The vulnerability in PvP deals directly with a suggestion I made to fix that, though I have no idea how others might approve of it or not.

 

-It seems I did not effectively communicate with what I meant with ice meteorite. Even should our tanking be fine, I'm as well aware as you are that our offense is horrible and it would still need a huge boost [AoE wise]. I meant to treat the two as a separate issue, I was not trying to claim Ice meteorite had anything to do with justifying the VL fix, just that it would address the separate issue of prs offense being weak. I was saying WITH that, we would only need our tanking fixed to be a balanced class if ice meteorite is put in the way I think it will be.

 

-I believe I said it somewhere at the first mention of the VL nerf, though I'm lazy to go back and quote myself from wherever it was, that I gave a very similar ratio breakdown for the immediate effects of the VL nerf [prs becoming dead last in basically everything]. The balance I gave would be after a tanking boost on the VL nerf and ice meteorite. Seeing as how the VL nerf is not in yet, we have no idea what will come with it, though I will admit this is leaving things up to faith that we will not spend too long being a poorly balanced class.

 

To sum up:

-We know VL will be nerfed even should we get it postponed, so we might as well stop harping on complaining about the change and start thinking of solutions to address it [feel free to add suggestions in this thread]

-We don't know if the mobs will be nerfed in PvE to help compensate for everyone [at least on exp maps]. Likely, this would have something to do with determining what kind of tank boost we get if its put on, so we might have to wait and see on this. There are other changes that might be made to prs as well in different skills, so it does get us in a terrible "wait and see" kind of situation

-We will have to effectively lobby to make sure Ice meteorite can help places us in about 2nd for AoE amongst the classes, but regardless, it will be an improvement off of CL. We can't do anything about the skill though until its put in however, another point we're put in "wait" mode for.

 

[beaker1337 0]

@Zero

- I never said "efficiently", it was sufficiently... which means they were gaining XP at a somewhat decent rate. And I also stated that it was alot easier when I was there. VL helped increase the amount of XP by enough to offeset the cost of one more person, (who I might add didn't kill very much). And I have seen groups loose control over a spawn as soon as the prs left also, those same people were able to control the spawn before the prs arrived tho??? I wonder why, oh yea its cuz the sudden loss of VL kinda screwed the dynamic of the party up.

 

- I will try another method, You said, "we can't know how big a tanking boost we need if the mobs are nerfed to help other classes, because then we won't need as big a boost as before." My thoughts are why completely remove the Hidden abs boost? why not just nerf it to 15%. or wait until there is something closer to the next point...

 

-I realize the Spr = Abs is not a complete compensation, which is my point. But I think it will implemented to at least be a partial one. It doesn't matter if that was the design or not. What I am saying is there should be "What Prs is losing (-30% damage in VL)" and "something that shows where its being made up (example only: Muspell added hidden -10% damage reduction. Beta)" should be in the same patch. It effectively communicates the intent of the change.

 

-In PvP we will be no different than before, at best. Don't get it mixed up. We were a non killing, only there for vl, char. After we will still be a non killing, only there for vl, char. End of story. We don't change in PvP, everyone else gets the benefit they don't have to run and get vl any more. If they don't pay attention, the abs boost from VL will not run out now. That formula got changed. If I go PvP I can't choose someone without vl and hope I can VB him/her to death. I could only get lucky in PvP before, now I have no chance.

 

-Ice meteorite, looks fun and will finally give us a real Aoe. Yay, dont try to cast it, you will die. End of story. CL adds a kick back to monsters, ice meteorite will slow them down. Is kinda pointless to the topic.... Prs still needs to tank. If it can help, then awesome. CL does in fact help, while your spamming CL it provides the kickback right now, so you take less hits, and your hp bar doesn't move. if you stand there, your hp will start to fall.... if you wait to long you die.

 

So to sum things up:

-Harping on the fact that we get nothing now, yet almost everything taken away, we will have to wait, and we all know life happens so it could be 1 day, 1 year or never. Is a good reason to wait for VL nerf until there is a good solution, even if interim. Or even a bad solution, that is as class specific as the skill change.

-The wait and see situation is never good, Mech has been there for quite awhile, and their community isn't really thrilled about it. How long has Archer been there. who else is there, and why add to that list if you don't have to. I've said instead of waiting broken and useless, just wait broken. Nerf the mobs if that is whats going to happen, change the abs formula, the hp formula, the pvp formula, and nerf vl to half of what it is now. Then when the comparable change is ready, finish the nerf to vl and implement the comparable change.

-I agree, we will have to effectively lobby to make sure our T5 skills stay up to par. And yes we are in wait mode on those, but so is everyone else. (pike did get a nerf, already). We need to have a good solid front, with good arguments.

[ADONIS 0]

The idea of VL is wonderful, but Priest must be compensate in my opinion with an abs improvment in Summon Muspell, this will fix theyr lack of tanking i disagree make PRS wait several patches to fix (PRS must tank decently  they simple cant kill).

[Zero 0]

@Beaker:

 

-I never said that a boost on muspell to include VL like effects couldn't be put in on the same patch, I'd be for that as well and hopefully the staff considers that. My entire argument for the spirit boost was solely directed at those in favor of a HP/spirit mix to achieve the same result rather than a pure spirit stat change, which I argued would defeat its purpose [to make spirit more balanced with agi/str gains]

 

-Anyone can gain exp at a "decent rate", at least compared to the horrible grinds of retail. Going by that, you could easily take a spawn of 5 monsters and get the same result, its "sufficient" since you're gaining exp, but it is nowhere near desirable. You need to be efficient for tolerable exp, 1 pot and then 1 attack and then 1 pot again is not efficiency. Considering this is a private server, I was saying that this won't sit well with mainstream population. I've seen parties as well be in a spawn before a prs joins them, but those hardly last long if one doesn't come relatively soon, they also tend to involve mechs tanking for the other chars. The risk of death is extremely high for anyone but mech without VL, which would be one of the most noticeable differences that get people to lobby for a better PvE fix.

 

-PvP is a separate issue and we will never be killers there [we must remain 8th at 1 v 1]. I had no illusion that we were only there for VL and now that is gone too, but that is also hardly saying anything [sitting behind flags casting a buff vs sitting behind flags isn't a huge change]. There is something we can implement to change that however, and make prs a true support char in PvP: Changing holy reflection [would make us far more effective on the field as medics]. I sent a long justification for it to someone, maybe I'll post it here. I don't think it'd be appropriate though, since that is addressing separate issues than the one this topic discusses, VL [it would benefit prs but it would not address the tanking]

 

-By no means am I against waiting to put this in, I am not campaigning to have this in the very next patch [i am a prs after all]. Regardless, the staff has made their intent clear to do this, and they had it scheduled for the next patch so its best we prepare for it and how we should adjust prs to compensate, instead of doing wishful thinking. We should try to discuss how to change muspell to compensate, agree on it, and present it in time for the next patch. That would be far more effective than hoping the 2-3 voices here on the forum get it postponed.

[beaker1337 0]

@Beaker:

 

-I never said that a boost on muspell to include VL like effects couldn't be put in on the same patch, I'd be for that as well and hopefully the staff considers that. My entire argument for the spirit boost was solely directed at those in favor of a HP/spirit mix to achieve the same result rather than a pure spirit stat change, which I argued would defeat its purpose [to make spirit more balanced with agi/str gains]

 

-Anyone can gain exp at a "decent rate", at least compared to the horrible grinds of retail. Going by that, you could easily take a spawn of 5 monsters and get the same result, its "sufficient" since you're gaining exp, but it is nowhere near desirable. You need to be efficient for tolerable exp, 1 pot and then 1 attack and then 1 pot again is not efficiency. Considering this is a private server, I was saying that this won't sit well with mainstream population. I've seen parties as well be in a spawn before a prs joins them, but those hardly last long if one doesn't come relatively soon, they also tend to involve mechs tanking for the other chars. The risk of death is extremely high for anyone but mech without VL, which would be one of the most noticeable differences that get people to lobby for a better PvE fix.

 

-PvP is a separate issue and we will never be killers there [we must remain 8th at 1 v 1]. I had no illusion that we were only there for VL and now that is gone too, but that is also hardly saying anything [sitting behind flags casting a buff vs sitting behind flags isn't a huge change]. There is something we can implement to change that however, and make prs a true support char in PvP: Changing holy reflection [would make us far more effective on the field as medics]. I sent a long justification for it to someone, maybe I'll post it here. I don't think it'd be appropriate though, since that is addressing separate issues than the one this topic discusses, VL [it would benefit prs but it would not address the tanking]

 

-By no means am I against waiting to put this in, I am not campaigning to have this in the very next patch [i am a prs after all]. Regardless, the staff has made their intent clear to do this, and they had it scheduled for the next patch so its best we prepare for it and how we should adjust prs to compensate, instead of doing wishful thinking. We should try to discuss how to change muspell to compensate, agree on it, and present it in time for the next patch. That would be far more effective than hoping the 2-3 voices here on the forum get it postponed.

Now it seems like your just playing devils advocate. We have agreed on almost all points. My thoughts are not to change what the staff is planning to do in the long run. They will do as they please, and I understand that. However, nothing is set in stone. Just because something is slated to be released does not make it so. I am advocating a change in timeline, to hold part of this patch for just a little while longer until more of their plan is ready to be rolled out. Or instead of that doing a gradual change to the skill(s) as they fit the patch(es).

If vl is removed and there is not a true compensation. Then only nerf it to the approximate conditions. If its a little overpowered or underpowered, thats ok. If its gone, then PRS is kinda screwed until the rest follows in the next (FEW) patches. they may roll out 17 patches in one maintenance. and then well I lobbied for nothing. I wasted my time and yours. and I will apologize. But it could also be over the course of the next few weeks. Or god forbid longer. But as we all know life happens, and things come up.

And as far as the wishful think goes, Mechs have been lobbying pretty hard as of late and I'm fairly positive Wartale said he was going to do something about it. So wishful thinking got them on the radar why cant't it get us there also. And "sufficient" would mean in the context it as used, "decent enough to grind for even if its not perfect."