Please discuss and/or explain....

[beaker1337 0]

@zero

Maybe i wasn't clear, so ill use a larger font size. As of the next patch the only thing we will have is extinction, until we know if they are going to add something to another skill or nerf all mobs attack power. I say we should keep extinction as it is, and then quite possibly still keep it the same. As of the next patch, we can't pvp, we can't mass kill, we will have lost are biggest defensive buff, so ya lets give up hunting too.

Now that being said. I also stated that I can't comment on how Super OP it is in higher maps. I can't get there to form my own opinion. That being said, the true argument would be If pikes can OHKO in PvP, If KS and ATA can be considered above average every where, if mechs can tank everywhere (except PvP and ET, but thats a bug, they should be able to do it there to), or Mages being able to PvP and even 2 shot people. Why does being OP against undead make any difference? Everyone else has there place. Why does mine have to be in the back of the bus?

I will say if holy reflection does damage to everything, with a bonus to undead. Even with an extinction nerf people will bitch whine and complain its OP. And then we are in the same boat. If extinction gets a nerf, people will use the same argument its op. When they get rid of VL they will say WTF, because then its something they don't get to use.

And being an elitist high lvl, doesn't get you very far. The superior holier than thou, I know better than anyone, crap is bullshit. Listen, to what is being said. And weigh it on its own merits. The argue, just to argue is crap. I have an opinion and I stated it clearly. I have conceded that I can't judge maps above my lvl. I have conceded that extinction could possibly change, I have only asked that when corrections are made, instead of large sweeping changes. Smaller steps be taken, so the implications can be seen. When you drive your car, you dont hard left or hard right all the time. You use gradual changes to keep you going where you want to go. This is the same situation. Everyone says just do....... big sweeping changes, have you tested it? do you know what will happen, are you sure? I have only proposed smaller changes to what will happen.

 

 

[Rehv 0]

to the ppl who say extinction is OP: I DON'T CARE. Life doesn't begin at lvl 115, I wanna be capable of going EXP in MD too, for noobs sake. Which at the moment is pretty impossible without VL hidden buff (it all began with the atr/def new formula ).

[beaker1337 0]

to the ppl who say extinction is OP: I DON'T CARE. Life doesn't begin at lvl 115, I wanna be capable of going EXP in MD too, for noobs sake. Which at the moment is pretty impossible without VL hidden buff (it all began with the atr/def new formula ).

 

At the moment it hasn't changed AFAIK, its scheduled to change next patch.

When was the new atr/def formula changed? Can you link to patch for it, please.

And it did suck not being capable in the MD's, so for this reason i would agree with the change to holy Reflection as zero suggested.

[Rehv 0]

to the ppl who say extinction is OP: I DON'T CARE. Life doesn't begin at lvl 115, I wanna be capable of going EXP in MD too, for noobs sake. Which at the moment is pretty impossible without VL hidden buff (it all began with the atr/def new formula ).

 

At the moment it hasn't changed AFAIK, its scheduled to change next patch.

When was the new atr/def formula changed? Can you link to patch for it, please.

And it did suck not being capable in the MD's, so for this reason i would agree with the change to holy Reflection as zero suggested.

 

I can't link it because it's not on Patch subforum anymore

It was like a veeeeery long time ago, but when they did it, they pretty much forced prs and mage to put on brac/gaunt/boot, and complicated life for pretty much everyone else excluding mech

[beaker1337 0]

to the ppl who say extinction is OP: I DON'T CARE. Life doesn't begin at lvl 115, I wanna be capable of going EXP in MD too, for noobs sake. Which at the moment is pretty impossible without VL hidden buff (it all began with the atr/def new formula ).

 

At the moment it hasn't changed AFAIK, its scheduled to change next patch.

When was the new atr/def formula changed? Can you link to patch for it, please.

And it did suck not being capable in the MD's, so for this reason i would agree with the change to holy Reflection as zero suggested.

 

I can't link it because it's not on Patch subforum anymore

It was like a veeeeery long time ago, but when they did it, they pretty much forced prs and mage to put on brac/gaunt/boot, and complicated life for pretty much everyone else excluding mech

I wonder is there anyway to view archived patch notes?

[Crius 0]

Okay, let's rephrase the whole extinction thing. Say all skills have a level of power/usefulness ranging from 0 to 10. Extinction is pretty much the definition of a 10 in terms of power, but it's only a 10 around 20% of the time (against undead). The remaining 80% (against everything else), it's the definition of a 0. The goal is not to weaken it, but to make it useful for more than one thing. Say you make it a 5 100% of the time. You'd actually be making it stronger on average (2 -> 5). Or a compromise; an 8 20% of the time and a 4 80% of the time.

 

As it is, no one is ever going to acknowledge the necessity for improving the priestess, because the universal answer is always going to be "fight undead". It'd technically be correct too, because against undead, the priestess is actually very good. The problem is, that's all the priestess will ever be able to do as long as extinction remains as it is. Making it decent against everything else and extremely powerful against undead will not happen. Knights get away with it right now because it's the status quo, and making characters weaker is generally much more unpopular than making them stronger.

 

So yes, I'm in favor of changing extinction. Like I said before, I would prefer a general DoT skill ("damage over time", as I learned today) so you can do damage while either doing even more damage through other skills, or using other support-related skills (I'm a fan of the regeneration field principle). Like, say, it removes X% + Y of the enemy HP per second. Perhaps add some sort of secondary attribute on it as well (at the cost of some damage) to further enhance the support role.

 

Oh, and don't call me an elitist at least. My priestess is nowhere near being able to enter any of the undead-populated areas save for lost island, so I haven't even had a chance to start reaping the true benefits of extinction.

[beaker1337 0]

@Crius

I'm not saying don't change Extinction. I'm saying don't change it now, at least wait until the unintended consequences of the other changes have been figured out. To many changes at one time causes chaos, and trying to figure out what caused it is more of a headache than its worth. If exitinction, holy reflection, vl, abs formula, hp formula, muspell or meditation and/or mob nerf. all happen in a realatively short period of time. And something else breaks, like now PRS can kill everything in the game barehanded and naked. Which caused it? was it a combo of all was it one that had the unintended consequence. Or now PRS can get killed by a hopy  while in a sherman tank. I have not said don't or it wont work.

And I wasn't calling you an elitist it was actually directed @zero. For the condesending tone he keeps using. I'm not dumb, and I don't treat him like he is. We have differing viewpoints on certain things, and thats fine. But if everytime I disagree, he restates something like I can't read, then we have a small problem.

[Crius 0]

I'm not saying change it this instant either, but you still have to have a plan ready for when it is changed. The sooner you've got that down, the sooner it can actually be done. If the game actually did what it said and didn't hide things (like the reduced damage from VL), it could all be done on paper. From the changes posted alone, I don't think the consequences will be all that dramatic, at least not in PvE terms. All classes will be better in the worst case (no VL active) and the same in the best case (VL active), with somewhere in between there on average. The priestess will have somewhat better survivability due to increased HP (I realize I'm probably guilty of ignoring that before, so sorry, my bad), and a slight abs boost. On the other hand, they will be less popular in parties, and be reduced to an anti-undead role and nothing more.

 

-

 

I'm just gonna brainstorm a bit on the extinction stuff with the whole DoT concept in case someone is interested.

 

Extinction seems to have a 9 second cooldown, so that means you can do 1 - 0.48^(t/9+1) percent damage over time, the +1 being the initial cast which requires no cooldown. If we change that to do damage every second, we get 1 - X^(t+1), where X would be ~0.865, or ~13.5% damage per second. Around 20% of the monsters in the game are undead (I'm simplifying here, so not taking areas like AD1-3 where it's more like 50-75% and the priestess is a goddess. So sue me). With that in mind, let's cut the damage down to 1/5th and change it from undead only to everything. We end up with around 2.5-3% damage (I'm going to say 3% for now just for arguments sake).

So, 3% damage per second. Ignoring outside interference, it will take ~22 seconds for any enemy to lose half its health (regardless of what they have). Against a hopy, that's useless. Against a high-level boss, it's pretty damn awesome. In PvP, it's pretty much useless as well. Of course, in order for something to actually die, you'd have to wait several minutes. We have three problems in other words; 1) it's bad against enemies with low health, 2) it's extremely powerful against enemies with a lot of health, and 3) the skill drops considerably in power as the health of the enemy drops (which will generally be the case since people are not going to cast it and then just stand around and stare).

 

This is where an absolute/relative combination damage comes in. Say we lower the relative part to 1%. Instead, we let the skill do an additional 100 points of static damage per second as well. Against an enemy with 1000 HP, it would then take 4 seconds to get it down to 50% health. If it has 10000 HP, it'll take 28 seconds. 30000 HP (high level bosses), it'll take 46 seconds. To actually get a kill with this skill alone though, it's 9, 68 and 137 seconds respectively.

 

Okay, maybe those numbers are not exactly perfect, but they can be adjusted. I'm just doing a proof of concept thing here. It'll be up to people who actually know how difficult the bosses with their various hidden attributes is to kill to determine what would work best.

[beaker1337 0]

All classes will be better in the worst case (no VL active) and the same in the best case (VL active), with somewhere in between there on average. The priestess will have somewhat better survivability due to increased HP (I realize I'm probably guilty of ignoring that before, so sorry, my bad), and a slight abs boost. On the other hand, they will be less popular in parties, and be reduced to an anti-undead role and nothing more.

 

- this part im not sure about. How are all classes better with no VL active? And how will they have better survivability, compared to what? VL adds a -30% damage reduction, so if all mobs attack power are reduced by 30%(which can be used unlimited times) survivability decreases. If you then add hp(which can only be used 1 time) survivability goes up by a fraction of a point. If you add a slight abs increase (40 spr for 0.7 abs) survivability goes up by another fraction of a point. It is not equal or even close to the initial reduction.

-Now if they nerf the attack of all mobs, then everyone now has the same benefits of original VL, free without needing a prs to cast it. And the only thing VL will now accomplish is the adding of 30% hp, this would have the most benefit in 1v1, and hunt situations. However, this added hp wasn't needed before by other classes in hunting, so they all become significantly stronger with the mob nerf at hunting. And PRS loses another advantage.

-If however, another skill is modified to retain some of the hidden ABS that vl used to provide. Then, number one we will get complaints that it makes prs OP and in a way it would our tanking skill while using it would be on par with mech ( and thats not even factoring into account extinction). we can just use the arguments for saying extinction is op, its the same principle. Because, the stronger the opponent the bigger the reduction.

 

--Now in reality it would probably be a combination of the 2, or something else entirely. with pros and cons of each.

 

AFAIK extinction and holy reflection do not work on bosses, which means that would have to change also. so we cant use those skills for bosses and  they were probably never designed to work in PvP either, so another change)

 

Why wouldn't we stay on the topic at hand and that is "What will happen when VL changes? How can we help shape and fix those changes, so we don't get the short end of the stick? How as the PRS community, can we provide feedback and ideas, for the problems at hand?" The change to VL is imminent, with no real communication as to what other changes are happening to address the loss of 90% of a widely used skill. Proposing the change to holy reflection, would have addressed that, even if it leaves us weaker than we were, it addressed what was being lossed.

 

If extinction is OP then it should have its own topic to address that.

 

[Crius 0]

- this part im not sure about. How are all classes better with no VL active? And how will they have better survivability, compared to what? VL adds a -30% damage reduction, so if all mobs attack power are reduced by 30%(which can be used unlimited times) survivability decreases. If you then add hp(which can only be used 1 time) survivability goes up by a fraction of a point. If you add a slight abs increase (40 spr for 0.7 abs) survivability goes up by another fraction of a point. It is not equal or even close to the initial reduction.

 

Oh, sorry, that was based on the implied change that enemies would do less damage, which I assume is going to be in the general area of 30%. Yes, if all mobs do -30% damage, it is the same thing as adding a permanent VL damage reduction effect, so everyone who previously used VL should be on somewhat equal grounds. They won't get 30% extra HP, but on the other hand, they won't need VL for the -30% damage effect, so I'd say it's a fair trade for them overall. For those who didn't have VL before, they'd benefit the most. The priestess will on top of that get extra base HP, so that's extra survivability for them. The HP bonus of VL doesn't change. How much of an impact the abs bonus will have is hard to say, but they should be getting around 6-8 abs for the most part, and the value of that varies depending on the situation.

 

So no, I don't think the situation for other classes will change all that much. They can still get the HP bonus, or they can trade that for a damager instead of a priestess and be happy anyway (honestly, they'd probably be better off). The priestess will be able to survive better, relatively speaking, since they do get more HP and more abs, and no matter how you slice it, that's an improvement (again, relatively speaking). Oh, and they'll be expendable to parties.

 

Why wouldn't we stay on the topic at hand and that is "What will happen when VL changes? How can we help shape and fix those changes, so we don't get the short end of the stick? How as the PRS community, can we provide feedback and ideas, for the problems at hand?" The change to VL is imminent, with no real communication as to what other changes are happening to address the loss of 90% of a widely used skill. Proposing the change to holy reflection, would have addressed that, even if it leaves us weaker than we were, it addressed what was being lossed.

 

We are on topic. We're talking about how to give the priestess something else of use. VL will and should be changed, so that ship has sailed. To me, the problem with the priestess isn't that they can't tank. Or do damage. Or PvP. It's that they can't do any of those things. It's okay if they can't do everything, but they should be able to do something at least. As I've mentioned, they are dead last in PvP, they are either last or tied for last in AoE, and they are not great tanks either. Without VL parties have no reason to have them most of the time. There is extinction left (and to a lesser extent, the other anti-undead effects), and that in its current form will prevent the priestess from getting anything else because it's so heavily specialized and so good at what it does that no one is going to agree to the priestess getting more. So I think changing extinction, though not necessarily weakening it, is pretty vital to improving the priestess overall.

[beaker1337 0]

so going off the implied change, we have now have a skill that is less usefull than before. And all other classes get a damage reduction bonus.

Well now it does exactly what is says it does.

And in the end, now it gives what it promised.

I now don't think we should get compensation for something that wasn't stated in the skill. it wouldn't be fair to any one else. And extinction should get a nerf, to half of what it does now, so PRS can be support. the only place for PRS is in the backlines healing and ressurecting ppl to fight.

See im a good prs.

[beaker1337 0]

I don't see a need to nerf vague or attack mastery [since it is already getting one]. Also, a new PvP formula is planned to be put on, lets see how that changes things up first before saying nerfing pikes is the solution.

 

Nice, I like your style. Nerf PRS here and there, but pikes lets wait and see. /AWESOME

[rodeo1 0]

Beaker you have started an epidemic  ;D gogogogogo lol

[Zero 0]

@beaker:

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I meant to be on the extinction nerf, it would be traded only for both a tanking boost and some other changes [like HR or maybe ice meteorite].

 

I don't mean to treat you like you can't read or anything, I write a lot of text within one post and so it is common for many people to miss an important line or two. This can happen to anyone, including myself, when reading the post of anyone who writes so much. As you can see, I did no such thing as to suggest nerf VL and extinction and leave it as is for a few patches. I said to only trade extinction for other benefits, unlike VL where compensation is not guaranteed, I would want it here. Sometimes I will bold or underline things I want to make sure get across, but I don't always do that and I never use larger font sizes to express that.

 

You mistake my attitude, nowhere have I directly called you stupid, incompetent or anything of the sort or meant to imply it. I don't penalize anyone for being low level, whether they're 8x, 9x or 13x, as long as I believe their argument is good. The only reason I mentioned level to begin with is because you mentioned just starting to reap the benefits of extinction at 115, which I was trying to say only gets increasingly better for the future which you must take into account. You don't need to be 12x to have an idea of how strong extinction is, you can simply look at the undead mobs on higher maps and know. Actually being on the map and using extinction isn't going to change that it takes 52% of their life in a single click just like any other map, you can get a good idea of how strong it is just by thinking about it with the undead mobs, which is what I was trying to actually suggest.

 

For another comparison sake argument, ata's soul sucker is considered a great hunting skill and it only takes 16% of the monster's life, and cannot be used when they have less than 50% of their total HP.

 

@Topic now:

-The VL change is hard to appropriate for because we don't know the staff's intentions. They mentioned it is a possibility to nerf PvE monster attacks, but they did not guarantee it nor give a value they would use for the application [we've just been using the VL value of -30% for arguments sake]. Continuing with that, lets say very well they put in a -30% damage reduction. If we told them to put in VL's effects into muspell [-30% damage], we've actually gained quite a bit. Not only are monsters hitting us for -30% just as if we had VL, now muspell would reduce it 30% further, making it a total of a 51% damage reduction [Monster power reduced by 30% = 70%, reduced by another 30% when they hit us [70 * .7 = 49] makes for 49% of their original attack, or a 51% reduction]. That actually makes us stronger than before, and quite possibly, as strong or stronger than a mech.

 

This is why I say waiting could be to our advantage, its far easier for people to forgive you being too weak than too strong. The classic example is mech maximize, they lobbied and got both it and GS boosted, but the instant complaints made them stuck for over a month with a 50% maximize [even worse than before the boost]. Then when they got it boosted again, they got nerfed the next day practically, to 160%. Even then, people still wanted them weaker. For this, gambling on the weaker side of things is to the advantage, as people don't forget you being OP but they will if you're weak. I say no more than 10-15% of a damage reduction into muspell.

 

I don't agree with the idea for making it passive, even tankmechs have to risk rebuffing and its a natural part of the game all classes have to suffer [so we need to stay balanced with that idea]. I don't see any real good reason either to put it into a mp recovery skill.

 

 

 

 

[ADONIS 0]

@beaker:

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I meant to be on the extinction nerf, it would be traded only for both a tanking boost and some other changes [like HR or maybe ice meteorite].

 

I don't mean to treat you like you can't read or anything, I write a lot of text within one post and so it is common for many people to miss an important line or two. This can happen to anyone, including myself, when reading the post of anyone who writes so much. As you can see, I did no such thing as to suggest nerf VL and extinction and leave it as is for a few patches. I said to only trade extinction for other benefits, unlike VL where compensation is not guaranteed, I would want it here. Sometimes I will bold or underline things I want to make sure get across, but I don't always do that and I never use larger font sizes to express that.

 

You mistake my attitude, nowhere have I directly called you stupid, incompetent or anything of the sort or meant to imply it. I don't penalize anyone for being low level, whether they're 8x, 9x or 13x, as long as I believe their argument is good. The only reason I mentioned level to begin with is because you mentioned just starting to reap the benefits of extinction at 115, which I was trying to say only gets increasingly better for the future which you must take into account. You don't need to be 12x to have an idea of how strong extinction is, you can simply look at the undead mobs on higher maps and know. Actually being on the map and using extinction isn't going to change that it takes 52% of their life in a single click just like any other map, you can get a good idea of how strong it is just by thinking about it with the undead mobs, which is what I was trying to actually suggest.

 

For another comparison sake argument, ata's soul sucker is considered a great hunting skill and it only takes 16% of the monster's life, and cannot be used when they have less than 50% of their total HP.

 

@Topic now:

-The VL change is hard to appropriate for because we don't know the staff's intentions. They mentioned it is a possibility to nerf PvE monster attacks, but they did not guarantee it nor give a value they would use for the application [we've just been using the VL value of -30% for arguments sake]. Continuing with that, lets say very well they put in a -30% damage reduction. If we told them to put in VL's effects into muspell [-30% damage], we've actually gained quite a bit. Not only are monsters hitting us for -30% just as if we had VL, now muspell would reduce it 30% further, making it a total of a 51% damage reduction [Monster power reduced by 30% = 70%, reduced by another 30% when they hit us [70 * .7 = 49] makes for 49% of their original attack, or a 51% reduction]. That actually makes us stronger than before, and quite possibly, as strong or stronger than a mech.

 

This is why I say waiting could be to our advantage, its far easier for people to forgive you being too weak than too strong. The classic example is mech maximize, they lobbied and got both it and GS boosted, but the instant complaints made them stuck for over a month with a 50% maximize [even worse than before the boost]. Then when they got it boosted again, they got nerfed the next day practically, to 160%. Even then, people still wanted them weaker. For this, gambling on the weaker side of things is to the advantage, as people don't forget you being OP but they will if you're weak. I say no more than 10-15% of a damage reduction into muspell.

 

I don't agree with the idea for making it passive, even tankmechs have to risk rebuffing and its a natural part of the game all classes have to suffer [so we need to stay balanced with that idea]. I don't see any real good reason either to put it into a mp recovery skill.

 

 

 

 

In my opinion extinction should not be nerfed (PRS must be to undead and to Support) i play most with mech and dont fell bad for extinction, i agree that PRS cant tank most than mech they must be the 2nd or 3rd in tanking (behind KS perhaps). improvment in muspell is a must be.

[Crius 0]

so going off the implied change, we have now have a skill that is less usefull than before. And all other classes get a damage reduction bonus.

Well now it does exactly what is says it does.

And in the end, now it gives what it promised.

I now don't think we should get compensation for something that wasn't stated in the skill. it wouldn't be fair to any one else. And extinction should get a nerf, to half of what it does now, so PRS can be support. the only place for PRS is in the backlines healing and ressurecting ppl to fight.

See im a good prs.

 

Don't be childish. Clearly you didn't get the point or chose to ignore it, but it wasn't to make the priestess weaker. It was to make them broader, and take away one of the major reasons for why they are weak overall (specifically, that they are insanely strong against undead). Either you're seriously looking forward to killing undead and doing nothing else, or you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

[beaker1337 0]

so going off the implied change, we have now have a skill that is less usefull than before. And all other classes get a damage reduction bonus.

Well now it does exactly what is says it does.

And in the end, now it gives what it promised.

I now don't think we should get compensation for something that wasn't stated in the skill. it wouldn't be fair to any one else. And extinction should get a nerf, to half of what it does now, so PRS can be support. the only place for PRS is in the backlines healing and ressurecting ppl to fight.

See im a good prs.

 

Don't be childish. Clearly you didn't get the point or chose to ignore it, but it wasn't to make the priestess weaker. It was to make them broader, and take away one of the major reasons for why they are weak overall (specifically, that they are insanely strong against undead). Either you're seriously looking forward to killing undead and doing nothing else, or you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

That was sarcasm.....

The idea is to change what needs to be changed. To fix one thing. or at least get an approximation, before moving to they next. When the "VL fix" happens. Well we are going to get a huge nerf, one that will completely change our class, for better or worse. Everyone can say its for the better, but if you and every other prs suddenly cant find a party, because we don't do enough damage. And pots are everywhere. So now its more prudent to have another mass killer char in YOUR spot.

So, we add this to the mix, now we get a nerf to extinction, which is pointless to this conversation, If it is OP, then its op it should be nerfed because its OP, not as a reason to increase another skill. Changing one skill, because everyone now gets that bonus is a reason to add too another skill. And i agreed with the change to Holy Reflection being a possible way to be a compensation.

I have said it, over and over, until this one gets close to being done, don't add more things its gets too complicated to predict. that is why i say don't screw with extinction right now. not because i wanna hunt undead so bad, or because im not seeing the forest for the trees. I am saying it is premature to change more and more skills at one time in one fell swoop, because you cannot predict the changes that it will have. and its all based on a premise that has neither been confirmed nor denied.

 

[Zero 0]

That was sarcasm.....

The idea is to change what needs to be changed. To fix one thing. or at least get an approximation, before moving to they next. When the "VL fix" happens. Well we are going to get a huge nerf, one that will completely change our class, for better or worse. Everyone can say its for the better, but if you and every other prs suddenly cant find a party, because we don't do enough damage. And pots are everywhere. So now its more prudent to have another mass killer char in YOUR spot.

So, we add this to the mix, now we get a nerf to extinction, which is pointless to this conversation, If it is OP, then its op it should be nerfed because its OP, not as a reason to increase another skill. Changing one skill, because everyone now gets that bonus is a reason to add too another skill. And i agreed with the change to Holy Reflection being a possible way to be a compensation.

I have said it, over and over, until this one gets close to being done, don't add more things its gets too complicated to predict. that is why i say don't screw with extinction right now. not because i wanna hunt undead so bad, or because im not seeing the forest for the trees. I am saying it is premature to change more and more skills at one time in one fell swoop, because you cannot predict the changes that it will have. and its all based on a premise that has neither been confirmed nor denied.

 

This is much better clarified on your viewpoint than your previous posts, which made it seem more or less that you would be defending the status quo [which we all agree is terrible for prs atm]. Basically from what I gather on this statement is, you want VL + tank to be addressed in one patch or so, then after that address other changes [like extinction/HR] rather than deal with it all in one patch? I would probably agree to that if that is what you mean.

 

Its also a point I previously made that some things have to be waited on to be adjusted until other variables play out. The biggest aid would actually just be getting our T5 skill ice meteorite [something we don't need to wait on for other variables], that way we can AoE for party play until all our tanking and other changes can be analyzed properly and fixed.

 

[Crius 0]

That was sarcasm.....

 

No really, that was sarcasm? I had absolutely no idea.

 

The idea is to change what needs to be changed. To fix one thing. or at least get an approximation, before moving to they next. When the "VL fix" happens. Well we are going to get a huge nerf, one that will completely change our class, for better or worse. Everyone can say its for the better, but if you and every other prs suddenly cant find a party, because we don't do enough damage. And pots are everywhere. So now its more prudent to have another mass killer char in YOUR spot.

So, we add this to the mix, now we get a nerf to extinction, which is pointless to this conversation, If it is OP, then its op it should be nerfed because its OP, not as a reason to increase another skill. Changing one skill, because everyone now gets that bonus is a reason to add too another skill. And i agreed with the change to Holy Reflection being a possible way to be a compensation.

 

The party thing has been mentioned several times (by me, in the post you responded to among others). And changing extinction doesn't mean weakening it. I'd argue I'm trying to make it better. That's what you're missing, and I don't understand why you keep inisting that I want it "nerfed", or that a discussion about a priestess skill is pointless in a discussion about, well, priestess skills. Compensation doesn't strictly have to be about increase the numbers of one skill to compensate for decreasing the numbers of another; it's all about how the skills are balanced, and if you change one skill to do something else, that definitely is going to affect the balance. By just juggling numbers, the skills have to fairly balanced in terms of effect already, and that's not the case with extinction since it is by its very nature useless most of the time and extremely powerful other times, and that's not something you can change by just increasing/decreasing a couple of values.

 

I have said it, over and over, until this one gets close to being done, don't add more things its gets too complicated to predict. that is why i say don't screw with extinction right now. not because i wanna hunt undead so bad, or because im not seeing the forest for the trees. I am saying it is premature to change more and more skills at one time in one fell swoop, because you cannot predict the changes that it will have. and its all based on a premise that has neither been confirmed nor denied.

 

And I said just a while ago that it doesn't have to happen now, but it's better to plan ahead so that you're prepared for when it does happen, instead of standing there and realizing you have to change something but you have no idea what. Yes, what I'm suggesting is based on assumptions about what will be changed, but if those assumptions are incorrect, hey, I can adapt. In my work, if I stopped everything and waited for test results before I did anything else, I'd never get anything done. No, I try to figure out alternatives while I wait for if things go bad so that I'm prepared to make those changes quickly and do the tests again. If it works, yay, I can move on to something else, and if not, I'll at the very least have some ideas to try. Perhaps some of those ideas will be obsolete or outright wrong, but it's not like I've been less productive by working on them instead of sitting around doing nothing (and who knows, maybe I've learned something).

[cat0048 0]

I have not taken the time to read everything on here yet, mainly just the first 5 or 6 posts.

 

Nerfing VL in this server will swing everyone from playing a lot of differnt classes to everyone playing mechs. They will be the onlything that will be able to survive in a legitamte map for it's level.

This game has no monster "agro" which makes nerfing survival very very bad. You can not make characters in this game similar to WoW or any new MMO. Not unless the tank has the ability to hold agro, which of course it doesnt.  If we did, then I would say sure, make priests flimsy as tissue paper and ridiculously powerful. The thing is, priests are meant ot be support, and healing. This role is not needed in PT, the game mechanics do not work in favor for it being worth while.

 

One ""fix" could be impliment that 30% damage reduction into our holy reflection. This way the priests still benifit, but other classes do not. Other classes do not need VL to survive in maps 3 ranks lower like priests do. Sure they need VL to tank but should an archer or atlanta be tanking in the first place?

 

Another fix would be to make a second rank of DL or something that is more powerful so priests can kite again. It was so much fun back in the day running around kiting monsters in oasis at level 23 or whenever your dl got strong enough to do so and you could take hits from skeleton rangers. I hated playing like that (and it actually ruined a mouse or two of mine), but I miss it. I'm bi-polar about it i guess, some times like it some times hate it. I like now that i can stand in the middle of mobs and spam chain lightning all day. its easy.. simple... takes no effort or skill to be good.

 

The problem with PT was when they initially released the iron maps. it was such a huge jump from the balance they had previously. The next tier skills/spells did not really make up for it. Sure, realm has added a lot of things and it is at least playable. but nerfing vl really could break the game if you are level 110 and cant even play in MD.

 

There are many ways you can try and balance this game, treating it like a WoW or some mmo that has monster agro will not only fail to balanace, but will break the game.

and the harsh reality is that PT can not be balanced. and pvp was an afterthought to the game anyway which is why it is so ridiculous.

 

(now time to read what everyone else has said and see how much a fool i made myself look like.)

 

I would like to add to this to go along with my statement abotu priests being support. This is the reason priests are so weak. we are a support class to a game that support does not work. We may as well have out healing spells ditched and replaced by something useful for us. Honestly, in every other game, the weakest tankers deal the most damage. Priestesses being the weakest characters in pt also have them doing the least damage. The only  thing priests have going for them if this happens is they are cute.

 

 

[lifesgood 0]

This is the reason priests are so weak. we are a support class to a game that support does not work. We may as well have out healing spells ditched and replaced by something useful for us. Honestly, in every other game, the weakest tankers deal the most damage. Priestesses being the weakest characters in pt also have them doing the least damage. The only  thing priests have going for them if this happens is they are cute.

 

[glow=red,2,300]Correct!

[/glow]