Question: MWM

[Rehv 0]

nothing changes the fact that a 95 spark mech can solo MD1 hs while my KS at 105 with 2h couldn't take a few hits : )

 

and I have both So I can just play "whoever is most OP" if I wanted. But I think mech is getting unfair and that's why I'm complaining.

Spark mech = shield

Try using your shield

 

get both using 1h, at same level, same spot. Mech tank much more and have more dps. But that's not the point, I'll just refrain myself from posting in this thread, as it's becoming a bit off-topic.

[Gogg 3]

Get both using same items, same level. Mech tank much more and that's the way it should be, got to be insane that those defense, absorption and block rates that are so much higher would make just a small difference.

 

But that's really unecessary. First because the damage nerf will affect power mechs, that trade tanking for damaging, and tanker mechs, that will damage even less. Nothing so bad if their absorption get to work once more

[Rehv 0]

Get both using same items, same level. Mech tank much more and that's the way it should be, got to be insane that those defense, absorption and block rates that are so much higher would make just a small difference.

 

But that's really unecessary. First because the damage nerf will affect power mechs, that trade tanking for damaging, and tanker mechs, that will damage even less. Nothing so bad if their absorption get to work once more

 

We all gotta pay the price to stop 1HKO. Everyone will get their damage reduced

 

Anyway this is pristontale, and pvp was made just because a game with no pvp wouldn't last long.

[Gogg 3]

If you like to live for PvE go on, I think it sucks.

 

If you want to stop 1HKO go work on atas, pikes and fighters. If a mech is killing you with 1 hit pretty often there's just 2 options: you suck or the mech cheats

[Rehv 0]

If you like to live for PvE go on, I think it sucks.

 

If you want to stop 1HKO go work on atas, pikes and fighters. If a mech is killing you with 1 hit pretty often there's just 2 options: you suck or the mech cheats

burn the game and re-do formulas so changing skills for PVP won't mess PVE and vice-versa?

[Gogg 3]

What's the whole point on it

 

Clearly mechs doesn't 1HKO anything in PvE unless damn lower lvl stuff. The only thing that really dies pretty often to 1 hit from mechs are mechs, so if you kill & die for 1 hit I don't see that much problem

 

The attack is already going to be lower, and nobody never said mech's attack is overpowered over PvE, I don't see how decreasing it would make so much difference on PvE

 

Ow, and mechs already stand on PvE, god-mode. Any changes on the abs won't change anything. Tanking the world and the world +1 seems the same to me

[meeks 0]

im tried bc with 311 abs and 3639 def and ps can still 1 shot me with cs, pike was 12x with enigma mix 120 scythe 

[ArgaMassa 0]

MWM....engines?

RIAIRIAIRIAIRIAIRIRI

[sharman 0]

THEN, NOW MECH IS THE STRONGEST ONE? MECH GOT ALOT OF DAMGE AND NO BUG ARMOR....

[Gogg 3]

THEN NOW MECHS KEEP SUCKING ON PVP? THEY GOT BUGS OMG

[meeks 0]

fazit: i still cant feel my 311abs and 3639def and do less dmg now...great

[idanqwe 0]

im tried bc with 311 abs and 3639 def and ps can still 1 shot me with cs, pike was 12x with enigma mix 120 scythe 

Ye.. the fix wasn't a real fix...

Abs just sucks at PVP :\

 

I hope Wartale will come with a solution and fix it.

[Zero 0]

It's purely math

 

Consider a Character with 50% of total block + evade.  Lets make a random generation guess.

 

Double Crash : fail, hit

Devine Piercing: fail, fail, hit, fail, hit, hit, fail

 

Now, whats the chance to get a succeeded 2 hits from Double Crash?

It's 25%.

Now, whats the chance to get a succeeded 7 hits from Devine Piercing?

7,1 %

Now, whats the chance to get a succeeded 4 hits from Devine Piercing?

12,5%

 

If you don't know how to do maths, well... Time to stop playing and go back to school

 

Its pretty obvious, and i'm not considering defenses

 

Its not really about math, but reasoning. Did you even bother to read what I wrote before quoting me or did you just skim it?

 

-Sure, if you have sound reasoning with your math it can make for a compelling argument, but Math without sound reasoning is just pointless number exercises. Trying to make a huge wall of text and posting some irrelevant numbers to legitimize yourself can work, but not for someone who is actually going to take the time to analyze what you wrote.

 

Lets get this straight first, I was attacking your reasoning and not your math skills [i don't know why you brought this in]. Perhaps you should go back to school and get a bit of that.

 

Now lets examine your DP vs DC example:

 

DP is 7 hits and DC is 2 hits, you cannot compare one DC to one DP, which is the fundamental problem you failed to address in your example. Also, I don't know why you're talking about damage boosts, I never mentioned anything of the sort. We were purely talking about chance aka the probability of landing an attack. Damage output had nothing to do with anything I stated. Whether DP has horrible dps/damage output is an entirely different argument than the one we were making.

 

-As you stated we're fighting against a character with 50% evade/block rate. Let us try comparing the same number of DC hits to the same number of DP hits, either 2 for 2 or 7 for 7 or 14 for 14. We'll go with 14 for a nice even number. Why? I don't assume your just going to stand and do nothing while DP animation finishes, you'll keep casting DC. For ease of argument and lack of information, we will assume 2 DP hits are casted in the same time it takes for 2 DC hits. It will not change the argument even if they differ greatly as you will see by the end.

 

14 DC hits: fail hit fail hit fail hit fail hit fail hit fail hit fail hit

14 DP hits: fail fail hit fail hit hit fail hit hit fail hit fail fail hit

 

Probability for 2 successes DP: 25%

Probability for 2 successes DP: 25%

4: 12.5%

... [etc]

 

 

We didn't even need to do this, but I did for sake of just showing you another example of the same concept. Why? You stated it yourself before you even began, the character had a 50% chanceto evade/block [without respect to AR boosts]. They're exactly the same, because we're not talking about the number of successes or fails, but the chance of fail/success. If DC hits once and misses once, it has 50% overall accuracy. If DP hits 7 times and misses 7 times [2 casts for sake of an even number], it also has 50% accuracy overall. Whether the skill was 7 hits or 2 hits, it did not change the fact the overall accuracy in both cases was 50%, meaning the ratio for block/evade by the opposing char was exactly the same. Thus, the number of hits had nothing to do with accuracy.

 

Wow, what a stunning revelation. A skill that adds zero AR has the same accuracy as another skill that adds zero AR? Astounding. For this, you didn't even need to bring in your statistical example, even if it had sound reasoning. It was just a waste of time and effort on comparing apples to oranges.

 

@Rehv:

I challenge you to go quote me where I said DP was a single hit, it had nothing to do with what I was talking about and wouldn't change my argument even if it were. I'm quite confident on my general math skills as well. Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension, you clearly highlighted your inability to understand almost any of what I had previously stated.

[ADONIS 0]

Please guys dont tell me that mech abs is istill bugged, OMG...(this can not be real)

[bongski26 0]

MWM 40 % damage is still big compared to knight's sword mastery 35% and fighter's melee mastery only 32%

[meeks 0]

MWM 40 % damage is still big compared to knight's sword mastery 35% and fighter's melee mastery only 32%

 

i cant just compare those skills...

u have to see the overall resulst in dmg with other classes while fully buffed...

[idanqwe 0]

MWM 40 % damage is still big compared to knight's sword mastery 35% and fighter's melee mastery only 32%

I already answered to that bullshit:

 

Mech has ONLY Grand Smash, unlike Fighters, Ata,Pikes,Knights that have two skills to attack with. (Spamming & deadly skills)

thats first,

 

Second, lets compare their attackinng skills.

Grand Smash: Adds 79% dmg + 400 AR

Avenging Crash: +95% dmg +50% AR boost + crit from brutal swing - taking grand smash by far.

Grand Cross: adds 80% dmg + 80% AR +50% dmg vs undeads  - better than grand smash.

Vengeance: adds 80% dmg + add 50 range - ranged character, still more than grand smash

Chain Lance : adds 55% x3 = 165% + 80% dmg on the first hit from Vanish + alot criticals from eye - taking grand smash by far.

 

Now, lets not talk about their deadly skills, which Mechs doesnt have okay?

[DarkLink64 921]

MWM 40 % damage is still big compared to knight's sword mastery 35% and fighter's melee mastery only 32%

 

i cant just compare those skills...

u have to see the overall resulst in dmg with other classes while fully buffed...

 

Maximize 150% with a 130 hammer +20 gives MUCH more ATK POW

I've already did the maths, its much more than Knight's god bless (everyone call this god bless buff as Overpower)

 

So there is no point, into MWM to be 40%

 

 

[meeks 0]

MWM 40 % damage is still big compared to knight's sword mastery 35% and fighter's melee mastery only 32%

 

i cant just compare those skills...

u have to see the overall resulst in dmg with other classes while fully buffed...

 

Maximize 150% with a 130 hammer +20 gives MUCH more ATK POW

I've already did the maths, its much more than Knight's god bless (everyone call this god bless buff as Overpower)

 

So there is no point, into MWM to be 40%

 

maxi should be > ks 100 buff!

 

why?

mech will lose his best defence skill while using maxi, ks still can buff all his defence shit. so yes, maxi should be better than ks skill...the way it is now!

[Crius 0]

Maximize 150% with a 130 hammer +20 gives MUCH more ATK POW

I've already did the maths, its much more than Knight's god bless (everyone call this god bless buff as Overpower)

 

So there is no point, into MWM to be 40%

 

A perfect 120 +20 hammer has 148 max damage. With maximize at +150%, it has 148*2.5 = 370, which is 222 extra max damage, or 111 extra average damage (~104 with maximize at 140%). God bless at level 10 adds 100 average damage. 11 point difference, not sure if that qualifies as "much more". Guess it would be better if you're going for an instant kill and get lucky and hit close to the max, but not much otherwise. Of course, a 120 +20 sword is slightly weaker to start with and will have slightly lower attack rating, but on the other hand, it has better critical and doesn't rely on the knight sacrificing his defensive buffs like metal armor for the mech.

[Zero 0]

KS is also far more accurate than any other class [melee wise], which is probably their most distinct and deadly ability.

 

[Crius 0]

Oops, forgot aging past 10 adds more than the first 10 does. It does improve the situation somewhat for the mech, but it's still worth noting that this is the absolute best case scenario for the mech (130+ with a perfefect 120 +20 weapon). At lower levels and/or with worse weapons, the advantage of the mech would be lower.

 

So to reiterate, the hammer would have 158 max damage -> 395 max damage -> 237 max difference -> 118.5 average difference -> 18.5 points more than god bless.

[DarkLink64 921]

It's the problem for a Weapon Related buff

 

Lower gears = underpower

Higher gears = Overpower

 

But still, we need to balance the game using the best gears at lv 130

 

There is no need for Mechanic Weapon Mastery to stay 40%, and, well, 19 of ATK pow is much for me

 

People die for 1 ATK pow on their weapons, i would die for 19 extra ATK pow

 

And Hammers are already much more powerfull

[meeks 0]

mwm would also effect automation. and that skill is still to powerless...

 

with upcoming changes mwm is fine as it is now...u'll see

[DarkLink64 921]

Automech is a build that will only pop out with T5

 

So, the solutions is simple, increase the Precision or Automation accordingly to MWM nerf

 

But, honestly, automech will be not that popular imo