Juicy

[pard 0]

Lucy

Edited December 9, 2020 by pard

[Crius 0]

I honestly don't know much about the archer and have little experience with them. If they are having problems, just instinctually, I'd say their biggest one is tanking. They have some good damage skills (on paper), decent AoE if it works like I've been told though perhaps not the strongest, and their wolverine for hunting. I thought there was a change to give some attack bonus from strength to encourage equipping better armor without losing all your damage but apparently that never happened. I don't know how many archers use low level armors and put their points into agility instead either, so perhaps that wouldn't have helped much beyond giving them more damage. They get block from bows and evasion from the skill, so there's probably enough of that already. More HP by improving their formula could help if they are short on that, as could a boost in absorb. Letting agility add absorb (beyond what is gained from the extra defense) would be one way, though then the atalanta would be getting it too. Other than that, nothing obvious comes to mind. There is a danger of just turning the archer into an atalanta by going down this road too.

 

Of course, this is based entirely on a quick and completely theoretical analysis prone to misunderstanding, so I could be way off base.

[Zero 0]

You're not going to get anywhere when you argue solely off emotion.

 

For starters, 1 v 1 damage below prs? Oh come on, that is a good one. Exaggerating a bit much there.

 

Now more to the point:

 

-AS was the class that started the whole class balance issues if you don't remember. If you could stop with the ME complex for 2 minutes that AS dropped momentarily from the center of attention, we could discuss this rationally. We have to discuss one thing at a time, and after working so heavily on AS during a period earlier in the year, we had to move on to mages, mechs and now on to prs. We can't always be about AS, there are 8 other classes you know. It is not our fault if you were not here for when they were always the center of discussion on the forum [thanks to hard lobbying AS players to make it a known issue], and many came around to accept the fact AS needed work. We discussed that for a long time, far more than the simple week or so we've been doing for prs, so I don't know where you've been, but this has been an ongoing issue mentioned a lot already.

 

I've also made my own suggestions as to their bad HP/MP formulas in my suggestion topic way before you ever mentioned it here:

http://www.realmpt.net/forum/index.php?topic=38989.0

 

Lets review just a bit of what AS got through those patches:

-FoN got boosted to +120 damage for AS [+60 for party] - became a good buff skill, better than Knight's godbless or mech's maximize, when it was only +30 before

-AoR became a decent AoE skill, might still use a slight boost, but otherwise fine

-Golden falcon regen boosted

-Wolf got huge tanking boost [helps in hunt]

-Bomb Shot became epic demon killer

-Ava/Perfo slight boost

-Block on bows

 

Notice from one patch where most of these came:

http://www.realmpt.net/forum/index.php?topic=22082.0

 

AS got a lot of changes for their arguments which were fair and justified. Look under prs there: nothing . I'm not saying AS is perfect, but we've done TONS of work to try and boost them in the past. Their main issue is tanking, but right now, that is an issue for everyone but mech. I do what I can to mention their need for some kind of mp/hp change, but I'm only one guy and they have tons of priorities atm.

[Zero 0]

I play a mech friend, I was just curious. Don't know where you got the argue off emotion thing. You on the other hand led me to believe that everything after that sentence was coming off of you being slightly offended from me not appreciating the work you might have done. And don't assume everyone has been here forever just because you have. I'm just calling like I see it at the moment.

 

Regards,

 

Waldir

 

The emotion comment came because your OP seemed offended that no one was talking about archers, provided little to no logical backing to the claim or example to demonstrate the problem, and exaggerated on top of that. That seems largely like an emotional appeal to me rather than a rational one.

 

Work I've done? I don't recall saying any of what AS got was my work, that would be a grave mistake to say so. That was the lobbying efforts and hard work of long term AS players like idan, who posted logical reasons as to why they deserved to be boosted. I could care less about any sentiment of pride in anything that I can do or have accomplished, I only argue off what I see as rational.

 

You don't need to be here forever to check patch notes, everything dating back to the start of this year is conveniently listed right here on the forum in the announcements section. If there was anything I was offended about, it was that such a post was made without checking into anything at all and then argued off what it didn't know, a simple look at patch notes or past posts by simply using the search function would've told you all that I said.

 

AS tanking is indeed a problem, but as I said, it is a problem for everyone right now [aside from mech] and not just archers, so it is not a problem specific to them at the moment.

[bongski26 0]

how bout increase archers evasion next patch?

[idanqwe 0]

I tried to balance Archer, and discussed about it alot on the forum.

Eventually I just gave up (like most of other 12x 13x AS players), because I don't think Archers will get their fix anytime soon.

 

Archers are fine at PVE, but sucks at PvP.

And imo if they boost their HP they'll be back in the game, and there will be more archers because they'll be finally a decent character to play with at PvP.

 

[bongski26 0]

I think raising evasion rate is better than raising the hp.Like in other games archers are known to be the best dodgers

[Zero 0]

I think raising evasion rate is better than raising the hp.Like in other games archers are known to be the best dodgers

 

We've raised both their evasion and block already, neither helped, HP is the only route left [their formulas are poor and don't make much sense to me at least]. The only thing I can imagine is their t5 skill to give them extremely high evasion, but we'll have to see how that works.

[Melocrie 0]

Archers are fine, in my opinion. They might need a few tweeks for people to be absolutely comfortable with them, but the same goes for all classes at the moment.

 

I do remember when I was between level 105 and 110, xping was a pain in the assfruit. I wanted to stick around at md1, but I had problems finding tanks and even when I did, spawns were so messy that I could hardly last for 3 seconds without potting. I switched it off eventually with gaining xp in lost island in parties, where my wolf could actually help out, and it wasn't such an immense chaos.

 

But sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who thinks that's actually.. normal for a ranged character.

 

Now in PvE with a more developed and geared up char, with bombshot as my main secret weapon at ft1, I'm loving it (still need a tank, of course).

 

In Pvp, weeeelll... I would say Archers can inflict some severe damage, If someone, say a knight, were to team up with an archer, they could really hurt many people. The problem therein lies that the archer will die in 1 or 2 hits (depending on your build and stats). Overall I can take a max of 3 hits. That might need a little fix.

 

Yet again, I sometimes feel like I'm the only one who thinks that's actually normal for a ranged character...

[bongski26 0]

IMO archers evasion skill should be higher than atas HOV.both adds 23% evasion at lvl 10

[Qwertronic 0]

Archers are fine, in my opinion. They might need a few tweeks for people to be absolutely comfortable with them, but the same goes for all classes at the moment.

 

I do remember when I was between level 105 and 110, xping was a pain in the assfruit. I wanted to stick around at md1, but I had problems finding tanks and even when I did, spawns were so messy that I could hardly last for 3 seconds without potting. I switched it off eventually with gaining xp in lost island in parties, where my wolf could actually help out, and it wasn't such an immense chaos.

 

But sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who thinks that's actually.. normal for a ranged character.

 

Now in PvE with a more developed and geared up char, with bombshot as my main secret weapon at ft1, I'm loving it (still need a tank, of course).

 

In Pvp, weeeelll... I would say Archers can inflict some severe damage, If someone, say a knight, were to team up with an archer, they could really hurt many people. The problem therein lies that the archer will die in 1 or 2 hits (depending on your build and stats). Overall I can take a max of 3 hits. That might need a little fix.

 

Yet again, I sometimes feel like I'm the only one who thinks that's actually normal for a ranged character...

Agreed. Strangely after choosing an archer as their character which is ranged, people expect archers to tank when they are obviously non-tankers.

[sonofsaturn 0]

IMO archers evasion skill should be higher than atas HOV.both adds 23% evasion at lvl 10

 

+1

 

I dont really care for more tanking abilities w/ an archer, but evasion should be their strong suit. But then again im only 10x, so my perspective might be a little less developed than veteran archers.

 

Wait, isn't pheonix speed going to fix that? I WANT T5 . Bah for patience.

[Crius 0]

Whether you are ranged or not only matters if you can kill everything before it reaches you. The game simply doesn't work in a way that supports ranged characters.

 

The thing about block and evasion is that even if you can avoid 90% of all hits, it won't matter much if you're fragile as glass for the other 10%. In that case it's often better to take more hits that you can survive. Even if someone loses half his HP every hit, he can heal in between and survive indefinitely as long as he has potions, while a character with 99% evade that dies instantly from a single hit would die eventually as soon as a hit connects.

[Melocrie 0]

Well, if there's 1% chance to be hit, and that hit drains half your HP (for instance), I think that's perfectly fair.. o_0

 

I would agree to raise Evasion to like 30% or 35%. I don't think Archers need more health, defense, more abs or anything that gives them the idea of a tanker, but should Evasion be their specialty and personal advantage, it seems like a good and honest idea to me.

[Crius 0]

If it was like that, then sure. My point was that even though having 99% evade may give you a very good number for average damage taken, it won't matter if that 1% kills you instantly. In that case it can be better to have 0% evade and a considerably higher average if none of those 100% hits will kill you before you have time to heal.

 

I'm not saying the archer should be given large amounts of health and absorb. I don't know how fragile they are right now, maybe they actually can survive a hit or two, but if that is not the case then raising their evade will not help them in the long run. If other classes can survive 2-3 hits, maybe the archer should survive 1 but evade considerably more of them, but surviving that 1 hit is more important than being able to evade more.

[bongski26 0]

evasion for archers ftw! it will make a huge  difference

[authur 0]

Before Patch 3210, I saw in the development list, there are a new damage formula ( 115 Agi for 100% Weapon damage and 190 Stren for 100% Weapon damage) which I can help As to train faster and easier.

After patch 3210, There are no update new damage formula and also removed it from development list. If you play archers in rPT, you can see a lot of ars transferring to ata or other chars. Therefore, Wartale should update the new damage formula for Ars to help player to continue to play Archer.

[sonofsaturn 0]

+1 to that. Hopefully the development didn't get ditched, and evasion strengthening is considered.

 

Either way, I'll keep playing my archer cause shes sexy and all. Even w/o the new formulas t5 would do something great for an Archer player's spirit.

[elk24 0]

+1

[Rehv 0]

+1 to that. Hopefully the development didn't get ditched, and evasion strengthening is considered.

 

Either way, I'll keep playing my archer cause shes sexy and all. Even w/o the new formulas t5 would do something great for an Archer player's spirit.

 

sorry to say this but...

 

There was no change in damage formula and is no longer planned

 

^^