Quick question about Attack Rating (RTG)

[murazame 10]

Hello there, people!

Can someone help me to understand how attack rating works?

 

@Overlady

Edited November 13, 2021 by murazame
tag admin, spelling and title change

[redsky272 731]

Good question  should wait for Overlady 

[Overlady 5,233]

Attack rate works in opposition to defense rate. The lower your attack rate, the greater the chance that the enemy will defend itself. 

There are other variables that define if you will hit or not. One of them is the level range in relation to the target. 

 

Kind Regards,

Overlady.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Overlady

[murazame 10]

1 hour ago, Overlady said:

Attack rate works in opposition to defense rate. The lower your attack rate, the greater the chance that the enemy will defend itself. 

There are other variables that define if you will hit or not. One of them is the level range in relation to the target. 

 

Kind Regards,

Overlady.

 

Wow!! There are a lot mechanics that I still don't know. In summary, if my target has 2000 defense rating and I have 1000 attack rating, I have 50% of probabilities of hit it. (that's without consider the other variables, right or wrong?)

I already know how precision, penetration, critical resistance work however which other variables might I not be considering like level range?  So @Overlady can you explain the other missing variables ?

 

Thank you so much for answering our doubts ❤️

[DeadlyWarrior 688]

49 minutes ago, murazame said:

 

Wow!! There are a lot mechanics that I still don't know. In summary, if my target has 2000 defense rating and I have 1000 attack rating, I have 50% of probabilities of hit it. (that's without consider the other variables, right or wrong?)

I already know how precision, penetration, critical resistance work however which other variables might I not be considering like level range?  So @Overlady can you explain the other missing variables ?

 

Thank you so much for answering our doubts ❤️

 

Just play Ranger and you dont have to think about this things. one build -> mostly spamm the same skill with high AR, Damage,  big  Range, good amount of health, nice evade in combination with Shield - and be happy and think you are the best in PVP. You can kill everyone easy.  in PVE people will call you for parties, and also in LC they will love to PT you if one tank in PT. Dont think about the parameters, play Ranger and be happy.

59 minutes ago, murazame said:

 

Wow!! There are a lot mechanics that I still don't know. In summary, if my target has 2000 defense rating and I have 1000 attack rating, I have 50% of probabilities of hit it. (that's without consider the other variables, right or wrong?)

I already know how precision, penetration, critical resistance work however which other variables might I not be considering like level range?  So @Overlady can you explain the other missing variables ?

 

Thank you so much for answering our doubts ❤️

 

7

Keath

146

5614.11

62

24

2.58

3

This AS was today in BC, level 146 and kill 62 people there, 2.58 K/D-Ratio. Dont think, just play Ranger.

[moobie1988 1,233]

I have 10k defense and 340 abs

1 abs = 100 def

Does that mean I have defense rating of 44,000? 

 

Does attack rating increase the chance of landing a critical hit @Overlady ?

[DeadlyWarrior 688]

14 minutes ago, moobie1988 said:

I have 10k defense and 340 abs

1 abs = 100 def

Does that mean I have defense rating of 44,000? 

 

Does attack rating increase the chance of landing a critical hit @Overlady ?

 

Def has nothing to do with Abs. Def Rating is the Chance you can "Avoid" or "Block" a Hit in relation to the Attack Rating of your opponent. 10k Def doesnt make you immortal, but will be hard to Hit you, especially as Melee-Class. ABS reduce the Damage before Final Damage. If someone land a HIT against you, your absorption will absorb this HIT by your current absorb rating. 1 Abs > 1 HP. HP work one time, you tank 1 time with HP, while ABS is always active against everyone. Thats why ABS or DMG-Reduction is better then HP in Bigger Settings, especially in PVE with multi-mobs. In some servers 1ABS = 1HP, here as i learned its like 2HP. so +100 ABS reduce dmg by 200, as i learned here.

The Blockrating is not effected by the AR of your enemy.  Penetration, Critical Res, Evade and Presicion were explained by the GM. Then the elemental resistence is left, they will provide a guide for it.

1 ABS is not 100 DEF
100 DEF add 1ABS

 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by DeadlyWarrior

[Overlady 5,233]

 

1 hour ago, murazame said:

 

Wow!! There are a lot mechanics that I still don't know. In summary, if my target has 2000 defense rating and I have 1000 attack rating, I have 50% of probabilities of hit it. (that's without consider the other variables, right or wrong?)

Technically, Yes, you have a higher chance of landing a hit if the enemy level is lower than your level too.

 

28 minutes ago, DeadlyWarrior said:

Just play Ranger and you don't have to think about this things

Rangers surely have a huge attack rating by design if you look at character info, but other classes have “final attack rating boost” in their spammable skills.

 

Kind Regards,

Overlady.

[murazame 10]

31 minutes ago, DeadlyWarrior said:

 

Just play Ranger and you dont have to think about this things. one build -> mostly spamm the same skill with high AR, Damage,  big  Range, good amount of health, nice evade in combination with Shield - and be happy and think you are the best in PVP. You can kill everyone easy.  in PVE people will call you for parties, and also in LC they will love to PT you if one tank in PT. Dont think about the parameters, play Ranger and be happy.

 

7

Keath

146

5614.11

62

24

2.58

3

This AS was today in BC, level 146 and kill 62 people there, 2.58 K/D-Ratio. Dont think, just play Ranger.

Thanks, Bro! However I like to think about those parameters even if I play as a melee or ranger, why? because I would like to code games ❤️

[DarkLink64 921]

 

On 11/14/2021 at 5:33 PM, DeadlyWarrior said:

1 Abs > 1 HP. HP work one time, you tank 1 time with HP, while ABS is always active against everyone. Thats why ABS or DMG-Reduction is better then HP in Bigger Settings, especially in PVE with multi-mobs. In some servers 1ABS = 1HP, here as i learned its like 2HP. so +100 ABS reduce dmg by 200, as i learned here.

The Blockrating is not effected by the AR of your enemy.  Penetration, Critical Res, Evade and Presicion were explained by the GM. Then the elemental resistence is left, they will provide a guide for it.

What you're trying to explain is a concept named Effective HP. However it has much more math and complexity and it is not that simple.

Effective HP is a dynamic, abstract value that represents your actual capacity to survive hits in a given period of time.

Right off the bat, 2000 HP, 200 ABS. Your effective HP is 2200 at 1 frame of period of time. If you add more frames of time, your effective HP either raises or decreases based on aumont of hits taken vs their individual damage output.

High HP is what you need to survive a single, powerfull hit. If someone deals 2500 damage on a single hit (or frame of time) , 2000HP+200abs will not  make your survive. However if you take 2500 damage split on 3 hits or 3 frames of time, then your effective HP raises by 200 by every hit, 2000 + 200 + 200 + 200, effective HP of 2600, then you will survive with just 100 hp.

However you should not worry about this stuff. It doesnt matter. All you have to do is hold the click down untill target dies, or press 1 to heal yourself whenever you HP is not full.

Edited November 16, 2021 by DarkLink64

[ChocolateTeapot 186]

6 hours ago, DarkLink64 said:

 

What you were trying to explain is a concept named Effective HP. However it has much more math and complexity and it is not that simple.

Effective HP is a dynamic, abstract value that represents your actual capacity to survive hits in a given period of time.

Right off the bat, 2000 HP, 200 ABS. Your effective HP is 2200 at 1 frame of period of time. If you add more frames of time, your effective HP either raises or decreases based on aumont of hits taken vs their individual damage output.

High HP is what you need to survive a single, powerfull hit. If someone deals 2500 damage on a single hit (or frame of time) , 2000HP+200abs will not  make your survive. However if you take 2500 damage split on 3 hits or 3 frames of time, then your effective HP raises by 200 by every hit, 2000 + 200 + 200 + 200, effective HP of 2600, then you will survive with just 100 hp.

However you should not worry about this stuff. It doesnt matter. All you have to do is hold the click down untill target dies, or press 1 to heal yourself whenever you HP is not full.

 

 

How do you even know that? ?

[DeadlyWarrior 688]

9 hours ago, DarkLink64 said:

 

What you were trying to explain is a concept named Effective HP. However it has much more math and complexity and it is not that simple.

Effective HP is a dynamic, abstract value that represents your actual capacity to survive hits in a given period of time.

Right off the bat, 2000 HP, 200 ABS. Your effective HP is 2200 at 1 frame of period of time. If you add more frames of time, your effective HP either raises or decreases based on aumont of hits taken vs their individual damage output.

High HP is what you need to survive a single, powerfull hit. If someone deals 2500 damage on a single hit (or frame of time) , 2000HP+200abs will not  make your survive. However if you take 2500 damage split on 3 hits or 3 frames of time, then your effective HP raises by 200 by every hit, 2000 + 200 + 200 + 200, effective HP of 2600, then you will survive with just 100 hp.

However you should not worry about this stuff. It doesnt matter. All you have to do is hold the click down untill target dies, or press 1 to heal yourself whenever you HP is not full.

 

Nice bro, learned something knew. Thank you

[DarkLink64 921]

15 hours ago, ChocolateTeapot said:

 

 

How do you even know that? ?

Some time ago it was possible to outclass someone 5 levels higher with all best items possible on PvP by simply trying to understand how the game works and theorycrafting the perfect build with the game formula, and quickly swapping gears (atk to def mixes, 1 hand weapon with 1 hand xmas/dagger, summer suit to actual armor, etc).

Unfortunately it's a thing of the past.  All this intense gear swapping and stats theorycrafting can't win against whales with uber expensive gears and 15 levels of advantage by 24/7 exp servicing.

Now as of Attack Rating, can't remember the formula (if it is still the same), but if your attack rating is equal or higher than your target defense, target defense chance is 0  + 3% (hard minimum chance).

 

I think it was :

 

Defense % = ((defense - attack rating) / defense ) * 100 

 

ATR = 2000

DEF = 2000

 

2000 - 2000 / 2000 = 0 * 100 = 0%, then if < 3 = 3%

 

ATR 2000

DEF 3000

 

3000 - 2000 / 3000 = 0,33 * 100 = 33%

Edited November 16, 2021 by DarkLink64

[ChocolateTeapot 186]

1 hour ago, DarkLink64 said:

Some time ago it was possible to outclass someone 5 levels higher with all best items possible on PvP by simply trying to understand how the game works and theorycrafting the perfect build with the game formula, and quickly swapping gears (atk to def mixes, 1 hand weapon with 1 hand xmas/dagger, summer suit to actual armor, etc).

Unfortunately it's a thing of the past.  All this intense gear swapping and stats theorycrafting can't win against whales with uber expensive gears and 15 levels of advantage by 24/7 exp servicing.

Now as of Attack Rating, can't remember the formula (if it is still the same), but if your attack rating is equal or higher than your target defense, target defense chance is 0  + 3% (hard minimum chance).

 

I think it was :

 

Defense % = ((defense - attack rating) / defense ) * 100 

 

ATR = 2000

DEF = 2000

 

2000 - 2000 / 2000 = 0 * 100 = 0%, then if < 3 = 3%

 

ATR 2000

DEF 3000

 

3000 - 2000 / 3000 = 0,33 * 100 = 33%

 

 

Huge knowledge, well done mate. Makes me realise how little I know about this game even considering how long I play it.

[DeadlyWarrior 688]

On 11/16/2021 at 10:02 PM, DarkLink64 said:

Some time ago it was possible to outclass someone 5 levels higher with all best items possible on PvP by simply trying to understand how the game works and theorycrafting the perfect build with the game formula, and quickly swapping gears (atk to def mixes, 1 hand weapon with 1 hand xmas/dagger, summer suit to actual armor, etc).

Unfortunately it's a thing of the past.  All this intense gear swapping and stats theorycrafting can't win against whales with uber expensive gears and 15 levels of advantage by 24/7 exp servicing.

Now as of Attack Rating, can't remember the formula (if it is still the same), but if your attack rating is equal or higher than your target defense, target defense chance is 0  + 3% (hard minimum chance).

 

I think it was :

 

Defense % = ((defense - attack rating) / defense ) * 100 

 

ATR = 2000

DEF = 2000

 

2000 - 2000 / 2000 = 0 * 100 = 0%, then if < 3 = 3%

 

ATR 2000

DEF 3000

 

3000 - 2000 / 3000 = 0,33 * 100 = 33%

 

This still works on Archer vs FS with huge lvl Diff (AS 146 enough). tested 140+24 Armor DNT +Shield 140+24 DNT against Summer Costume SOL-Finess-Mix  + 140 Shield+24 dnt against Archer in PVP. The result: Summer wins. Cant DEF Archer with both, but with summer have +2% Block +1 Speed to cast skill faster. If you believe me or not i am mostly with summer costume in BC Map. Many Rangers + Caution Zone, cant tank anyways. But with summer costume have the chance to cast atleast destroyer before die, sometimes take one AS with me to death. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by DeadlyWarrior

[murazame 10]

15 hours ago, DarkLink64 said:

Some time ago it was possible to outclass someone 5 levels higher with all best items possible on PvP by simply trying to understand how the game works and theorycrafting the perfect build with the game formula, and quickly swapping gears (atk to def mixes, 1 hand weapon with 1 hand xmas/dagger, summer suit to actual armor, etc).

Unfortunately it's a thing of the past.  All this intense gear swapping and stats theorycrafting can't win against whales with uber expensive gears and 15 levels of advantage by 24/7 exp servicing.

Now as of Attack Rating, can't remember the formula (if it is still the same), but if your attack rating is equal or higher than your target defense, target defense chance is 0  + 3% (hard minimum chance).

 

I think it was :

 

Defense % = ((defense - attack rating) / defense ) * 100 

 

ATR = 2000

DEF = 2000

 

2000 - 2000 / 2000 = 0 * 100 = 0%, then if < 3 = 3%

 

ATR 2000

DEF 3000

 

3000 - 2000 / 3000 = 0,33 * 100 = 33%

 

What a nice knowledge, bro! ? 

It's nice to know that there are some theorycrafting guys around here. I remember those days of swapping gears ? but I forgot almost everything about formulas .
Nowadays I trying to gather all the intel I can. 

[TigerShark22 488]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:46 PM, Overlady said:

 

Rangers surely have a huge attack rating by design if you look at character info, but other classes have “final attack rating boost” in their spammable skills.

 

Kind Regards,

Overlady.

 

Many of us aren't complaining that rangers have high AR/ nice crit/ evasion/deff and shield's block/ range. We are complaining that they have the ability to tank far better than what they are supposed to. It doesn't make sense that you need 2 crits to kill an archer, and 2 crits to kill fs/ks/mech. It doesn't make sense that in additional to their benefits as dexterity long range character, they have brute force power that can compete with melees in pvp. It also doesnt make sense that 2 PH are casted faster than pike's CL/ mech GS/ SS scratch and they can even pot between their hits. It doesnt make sense that in addition to all of it, she has range and running speed and a backwards dash to escape trouble.

Thats it pretty much.

 

( Also ata's amazon rage is broken, they got their buff at BC at normal state, but their rage mode, which in that mode she was OP even as a pre buff ata, now she's a god tier class while using it, and the only way to kill her is to pray for RNG, but in a fight to 10 - there is no chance to defeat her. And again, its a ranger, not a 1v1 head to head class, and again in this 1, her rage mode makes her able to completely stomp anyone in BC, while doing good even without it).

 

In addition to those things, those classes excell at SS, LC, boss hunts, team fights in BC, and have special roles at SW. while melees are pretty much nothing.

[ChocolateTeapot 186]

4 hours ago, TigerShark22 said:

 

Many of us aren't complaining that rangers have high AR/ nice crit/ evasion/deff and shield's block/ range. We are complaining that they have the ability to tank far better than what they are supposed to. It doesn't make sense that you need 2 crits to kill an archer, and 2 crits to kill fs/ks/mech. It doesn't make sense that in additional to their benefits as dexterity long range character, they have brute force power that can compete with melees in pvp. It also doesnt make sense that 2 PH are casted faster than pike's CL/ mech GS/ SS scratch and they can even pot between their hits. It doesnt make sense that in addition to all of it, she has range and running speed and a backwards dash to escape trouble.

Thats it pretty much.

 

( Also ata's amazon rage is broken, they got their buff at BC at normal state, but their rage mode, which in that mode she was OP even as a pre buff ata, now she's a god tier class while using it, and the only way to kill her is to pray for RNG, but in a fight to 10 - there is no chance to defeat her. And again, its a ranger, not a 1v1 head to head class, and again in this 1, her rage mode makes her able to completely stomp anyone in BC, while doing good even without it).

 

In addition to those things, those classes excell at SS, LC, boss hunts, team fights in BC, and have special roles at SW. while melees are pretty much nothing.

 

 

No one is talking about it because the topic is about something else.

[murazame 10]

3 hours ago, ChocolateTeapot said:

No one is talking about it because the topic is about something else.

No problema, amigo. Talking about the situation of AS and ATS is also about Attack rating and Defense Rating. However let me say something to his complain 

 

 

7 hours ago, TigerShark22 said:

 

Many of us aren't complaining that rangers have high AR/ nice crit/ evasion/deff and shield's block/ range. We are complaining that they have the ability to tank far better than what they are supposed to. It doesn't make sense that you need 2 crits to kill an archer, and 2 crits to kill fs/ks/mech. It doesn't make sense that in additional to their benefits as dexterity long range character, they have brute force power that can compete with melees in pvp. It also doesnt make sense that 2 PH are casted faster than pike's CL/ mech GS/ SS scratch and they can even pot between their hits. It doesnt make sense that in addition to all of it, she has range and running speed and a backwards dash to escape trouble.

Thats it pretty much.

 

( Also ata's amazon rage is broken, they got their buff at BC at normal state, but their rage mode, which in that mode she was OP even as a pre buff ata, now she's a god tier class while using it, and the only way to kill her is to pray for RNG, but in a fight to 10 - there is no chance to defeat her. And again, its a ranger, not a 1v1 head to head class, and again in this 1, her rage mode makes her able to completely stomp anyone in BC, while doing good even without it).

 

In addition to those things, those classes excell at SS, LC, boss hunts, team fights in BC, and have special roles at SW. while melees are pretty much nothing.

 

Hello bro,

 

Since I have been playing this game characters based on Agility have better chances to hit other chars but why is that? The answer is on the Game Formulas. Atk rating formula is far better than its counterpart "Def rating" so most of the time you get hit. This is without considering Abs that reduces intake damage.

Why is too hard to kill them? Well considering enemy Abs, Def RTG, Evasion, block in combination with the lack of other chars Atk RTG give us the reason of why they hardly get hit. 

 

Talking about their skills that also requires adjustments PH cooldown is 0.5 sec and its casting animation y faster than DT, CL, GS, Scracth, etc... so its DPS is abnormal and overpowered. The rest of  offensive AS skills are practically part of what means being a range char. 

 

Hoppefully this would help you
Also I'm not complaining about it even if an AS killed me knowing their actual condition and power ? but the day of judgement will come ?

[TigerShark22 488]

On 11/20/2021 at 10:02 PM, murazame said:

No problema, amigo. Talking about the situation of AS and ATS is also about Attack rating and Defense Rating. However let me say something to his complain 

 

 

 

Hello bro,

 

Since I have been playing this game characters based on Agility have better chances to hit other chars but why is that? The answer is on the Game Formulas. Atk rating formula is far better than its counterpart "Def rating" so most of the time you get hit. This is without considering Abs that reduces intake damage.

Why is too hard to kill them? Well considering enemy Abs, Def RTG, Evasion, block in combination with the lack of other chars Atk RTG give us the reason of why they hardly get hit. 

 

Talking about their skills that also requires adjustments PH cooldown is 0.5 sec and its casting animation y faster than DT, CL, GS, Scracth, etc... so its DPS is abnormal and overpowered. The rest of  offensive AS skills are practically part of what means being a range char. 

 

Hoppefully this would help you
Also I'm not complaining about it even if an AS killed me knowing their actual condition and power ? but the day of judgement will come ?

Hi bro 

Yeah, not the topic, but this topic was risen here. I agree that as should have high damage, but I disagree that they can have the hp that enables them to die in 2 crits like melee too. The only way to prevent them from having it is to pick 1/ a mixture of the options above:

1. Nerf PH ( and badly, more than the 149% they wanted at the start), to force archers to take out points from str/ health. ( Idk how they were saving the unjustified nerfs in fs and pike, overnerfing ks but canceling this 1 nerf, which wasn't even enough).

 

2. Nerf as hp formula ( again badly) to force their hp to get lower.

3. A mix of both in a decent way.

 

Btw, when they have the upper hand in 1v1, and team fights ( idk how what supposed to be a glass cannon becomes the best tanker and killer in team fights all together), the upper hand in the every lucky stat, yet able to compete the brute force of melees, it is a case when something is OP.

 

P.S- about them having AR as a characteristic- yes, I agree. Yet they dont have hp as characteristic , and somehow you need 2 crits to kill them, just like ks/fs/ ms. Their slightly more hp means nothing, especially when fs is specifically supposed to excel in hp and 1v1 fights, and ks/ ms are supposed to excel as tankers. Those are characteristics. Having 1 hp more than as or 500 more won't change the fact that u need 2 crits to kill all of the classes mentioned above.

 

It's like saying that as is AR base, and all the melee classes must gain a boost of 250% AR to compete as cause its not not fair that as has more AR ( Im taking about their brute force characteristic that shouldn't exist, and they should force rangers to take out points from hp and str ).

 

[Dramalho08 57]

@Overlady the point is high evasion, high speed (running and hitting), high atk rtg, extremely high damage 156% with no delay and with few chances to the enemy defends, the best health-HP formula, stun, pushing, buff for attack rtg... Do you really think AS is a balanced class for pvp? If you still have any doubt about that, take a look into pvp ranking right now, the top 15 archer got 1k+ exp and the remaining classes the average is 1k+ for top 7. Hands down archer is a broken character for pvp and those who disagree with it are archers or don't have reasonable arguments.

[kenibok 1,059]

1 hour ago, Dramalho08 said:

@Overlady the point is high evasion, high speed (running and hitting), high atk rtg, extremely high damage 156% with no delay and with few chances to the enemy defends, the best health-HP formula, stun, pushing, buff for attack rtg... Do you really think AS is a balanced class for pvp? If you still have any doubt about that, take a look into pvp ranking right now, the top 15 archer got 1k+ exp and the remaining classes the average is 1k+ for top 7. Hands down archer is a broken character for pvp and those who disagree with it are archers or don't have reasonable arguments.

 

But you're ignoring literally the whole context of PvP, if you consider it you get all the reasonable arguments you ask for, and many to focus on fixing classes like brawler, assassin, atalanta, etc, archer is far behind. 

 

High evasion: 1st Archer's defensive ability is evasion and evasion only unlike any other class, archer don't have defense (lower than 3k, you will 100% never see "defense" when hitting an archer) its negligible, abs is also negligible, block is 8% xd. 2nd evasion is non-aditive, you could have 100% eva and still receive hits qu1te easily.

If evasion is something you're concerned about, you should focus on assassin that has only 4% less evasion than archer (and same running speed), defense and 17% block, could also mention that assassin's main stat rewards them with HP meaning there's no real need for points redistribuition; since this is about attack rating you should also consider that assassin's attack rating is extremely high, can easily put hits into mechs with metal armor. - This is just one example of the context you're ignoring.

 

High running speed: mounts exist. they also give you evasion and don't have debuff.

 

High attack rating: Just like @Overlady explained above, all other classes have attack rating boost in their skills, examples: VBall +70% (over final rate), GS +70%, deception +100% or finishing blow +30%, etc, the skills that don't have attack rating boost have other type of buff like critical, range, etc. While archer's have a final rate higher, because they don't have a single skill that has attack rating boost. - This is context.

If you really care about high attack rating, I don't understand why aren't you looking at atalantas, every single skill atalanta uses has attack rating boost, from 10 up to 100%, higher defensive abilities, ice, stun (AoE unlike archer), poison, with higher attack speed (14 seconds delay), higher critical... Or assassin for obvious reasons - This is context.

 

extremely high damage 156%: This means nothing, skills can't be compared this way, there's many previous/final modifiers that are related to each class. Following your logic 420% of sword of justice, 190% scratch hit, 164% vigor ball, 266% judgement hit should be your focus before ph hit, this is your logic and its not an argument at all. 

Delay: ?? Should we put delay to vengeance, avening crash, scratch or chain lancer too? this is not making much sense buddy, actually you should put some context and see that phoenix is a 1 hit skill unlike any of the mentioned or any other class main skill. If you have a minimal skill on keyboard its possible to pot between every ph hit, but you if chances are you receive 2 hits of vengeance/crash/cross/vball/scratch etc there's no time to pot. - This is context

 

The best HP formula: that's not true at all lol, its priestess, brawler, fighter, mechanician, are also wayyy better, specially considering your damage-stat gives you HP. Should we believe anything you say at this point? anyways that's not for me to judge.

 

stun, push: stun arrow and spiritual manacle are the only 1x1 stun skills in the whole game. ALL other stun skills are AoE and/or have higher stun time: Roar (130 +14,5s), Soul shock (115+8s), Shield strike (180+7,5). Push... dude what xd leap shot is 100% useless at PvP its an extremely slow skill with no damage reward worth risking, but since it seems like an important thing to you maybe you should focus on pushback skills that can't be blocked, evaded or defended like Mourning pray, Storm javelin or Rampage that also has 4 hits. - This is context

 

"Those who disagree are archers" "or don't have reasonable arguments" Well I think I gave you many pretty reasonable arguments and points of comparison you ignored and since you want reasonable arguments, you should start by your own: "Those tho disagree are archers" not only this is not a reasonable argument, but this is not an argument at all, suggesting that someone's speech should be seen differently because they "are archers" is a fallacy (tu quoque fallacy) and it's just incorrect on its own. You're saying you're right and everyone who thinks differently is wrong, it obviously doesn't work this way

 

If you really care about balance and broken classes, you should Hands down focus on actual broken classes like mechanician, brawler or assassin, this could be a lot more consistent of you (and all of you here), also its kinda hard to not look at this as biased when you choose to look at archer when you have atalanta that has more tanking abilities, higher dps, higher attack rating.

[DarkLink64 921]

I logged into the game after years to test the duel, I got one shot by phoenix shot from an random archer.kek

Edited November 22, 2021 by DarkLink64

[Dramalho08 57]

16 minutes ago, kenibok said:

 

But you're ignoring literally the whole context of PvP, if you consider it you get all the reasonable arguments you ask for, and many to focus on fixing classes like brawler, assassin, atalanta, etc, archer is far behind. 

 

High evasion: 1st Archer's defensive ability is evasion and evasion only unlike any other class, archer don't have defense (lower than 3k, you will 100% never see "defense" when hitting an archer) its negligible, abs is also negligible, block is 8% xd. 2nd evasion is non-aditive, you could have 100% eva and still receive hits qu1te easily.

If evasion is something you're concerned about, you should focus on assassin that has only 4% less evasion than archer (and same running speed), defense and 17% block, could also mention that assassin's main stat rewards them with HP meaning there's no real need for points redistribuition; since this is about attack rating you should also consider that assassin's attack rating is extremely high, can easily put hits into mechs with metal armor. - This is just one example of the context you're ignoring.

 

High running speed: mounts exist. they also give you evasion and don't have debuff.

 

High attack rating: Just like @Overlady explained above, all other classes have attack rating boost in their skills, examples: VBall +70% (over final rate), GS +70%, deception +100% or finishing blow +30%, etc, the skills that don't have attack rating boost have other type of buff like critical, range, etc. While archer's have a final rate higher, because they don't have a single skill that has attack rating boost. - This is context.

If you really care about high attack rating, I don't understand why aren't you looking at atalantas, every single skill atalanta uses has attack rating boost, from 10 up to 100%, higher defensive abilities, ice, stun (AoE unlike archer), poison, with higher attack speed (14 seconds delay), higher critical... Or assassin for obvious reasons - This is context.

 

extremely high damage 156%: This means nothing, skills can't be compared this way, there's many previous/final modifiers that are related to each class. Following your logic 420% of sword of justice, 190% scratch hit, 164% vigor ball, 266% judgement hit should be your focus before ph hit, this is your logic and its not an argument at all. 

Delay: ?? Should we put delay to vengeance, avening crash, scratch or chain lancer too? this is not making much sense buddy, actually you should put some context and see that phoenix is a 1 hit skill unlike any of the mentioned or any other class main skill. If you have a minimal skill on keyboard its possible to pot between every ph hit, but you if chances are you receive 2 hits of vengeance/crash/cross/vball/scratch etc there's no time to pot. - This is context

 

The best HP formula: that's not true at all lol, its priestess, brawler, fighter, mechanician, are also wayyy better, specially considering your damage-stat gives you HP. Should we believe anything you say at this point? anyways that's not for me to judge.

 

stun, push: stun arrow and spiritual manacle are the only 1x1 stun skills in the whole game. ALL other stun skills are AoE and/or have higher stun time: Roar (130 +14,5s), Soul shock (115+8s), Shield strike (180+7,5). Push... dude what xd leap shot is 100% useless at PvP its an extremely slow skill with no damage reward worth risking, but since it seems like an important thing to you maybe you should focus on pushback skills that can't be blocked, evaded or defended like Mourning pray, Storm javelin or Rampage that also has 4 hits. - This is context

 

"Those who disagree are archers" "or don't have reasonable arguments" Well I think I gave you many pretty reasonable arguments and points of comparison you ignored and since you want reasonable arguments, you should start by your own: "Those tho disagree are archers" not only this is not a reasonable argument, but this is not an argument at all, suggesting that someone's speech should be seen differently because they "are archers" is a fallacy (tu quoque fallacy) and it's just incorrect on its own. You're saying you're right and everyone who thinks differently is wrong, it obviously doesn't work this way

 

If you really care about balance and broken classes, you should Hands down focus on actual broken classes like mechanician, brawler or assassin, this could be a lot more consistent of you (and all of you here), also its kinda hard to not look at this as biased when you choose to look at archer when you have atalanta that has more tanking abilities, higher dps, higher attack rating.

Hmmm I got that...

Hey dude, a question, what is really your main class? 

[TigerShark22 488]

7 hours ago, kenibok said:

 

But you're ignoring literally the whole context of PvP, if you consider it you get all the reasonable arguments you ask for, and many to focus on fixing classes like brawler, assassin, atalanta, etc, archer is far behind. 

 

High evasion: 1st Archer's defensive ability is evasion and evasion only unlike any other class, archer don't have defense (lower than 3k, you will 100% never see "defense" when hitting an archer) its negligible, abs is also negligible, block is 8% xd. 2nd evasion is non-aditive, you could have 100% eva and still receive hits qu1te easily.

If evasion is something you're concerned about, you should focus on assassin that has only 4% less evasion than archer (and same running speed), defense and 17% block, could also mention that assassin's main stat rewards them with HP meaning there's no real need for points redistribuition; since this is about attack rating you should also consider that assassin's attack rating is extremely high, can easily put hits into mechs with metal armor. - This is just one example of the context you're ignoring.

 

High running speed: mounts exist. they also give you evasion and don't have debuff.

 

High attack rating: Just like @Overlady explained above, all other classes have attack rating boost in their skills, examples: VBall +70% (over final rate), GS +70%, deception +100% or finishing blow +30%, etc, the skills that don't have attack rating boost have other type of buff like critical, range, etc. While archer's have a final rate higher, because they don't have a single skill that has attack rating boost. - This is context.

If you really care about high attack rating, I don't understand why aren't you looking at atalantas, every single skill atalanta uses has attack rating boost, from 10 up to 100%, higher defensive abilities, ice, stun (AoE unlike archer), poison, with higher attack speed (14 seconds delay), higher critical... Or assassin for obvious reasons - This is context.

 

extremely high damage 156%: This means nothing, skills can't be compared this way, there's many previous/final modifiers that are related to each class. Following your logic 420% of sword of justice, 190% scratch hit, 164% vigor ball, 266% judgement hit should be your focus before ph hit, this is your logic and its not an argument at all. 

Delay: ?? Should we put delay to vengeance, avening crash, scratch or chain lancer too? this is not making much sense buddy, actually you should put some context and see that phoenix is a 1 hit skill unlike any of the mentioned or any other class main skill. If you have a minimal skill on keyboard its possible to pot between every ph hit, but you if chances are you receive 2 hits of vengeance/crash/cross/vball/scratch etc there's no time to pot. - This is context

 

The best HP formula: that's not true at all lol, its priestess, brawler, fighter, mechanician, are also wayyy better, specially considering your damage-stat gives you HP. Should we believe anything you say at this point? anyways that's not for me to judge.

 

stun, push: stun arrow and spiritual manacle are the only 1x1 stun skills in the whole game. ALL other stun skills are AoE and/or have higher stun time: Roar (130 +14,5s), Soul shock (115+8s), Shield strike (180+7,5). Push... dude what xd leap shot is 100% useless at PvP its an extremely slow skill with no damage reward worth risking, but since it seems like an important thing to you maybe you should focus on pushback skills that can't be blocked, evaded or defended like Mourning pray, Storm javelin or Rampage that also has 4 hits. - This is context

 

"Those who disagree are archers" "or don't have reasonable arguments" Well I think I gave you many pretty reasonable arguments and points of comparison you ignored and since you want reasonable arguments, you should start by your own: "Those tho disagree are archers" not only this is not a reasonable argument, but this is not an argument at all, suggesting that someone's speech should be seen differently because they "are archers" is a fallacy (tu quoque fallacy) and it's just incorrect on its own. You're saying you're right and everyone who thinks differently is wrong, it obviously doesn't work this way

 

If you really care about balance and broken classes, you should Hands down focus on actual broken classes like mechanician, brawler or assassin, this could be a lot more consistent of you (and all of you here), also its kinda hard to not look at this as biased when you choose to look at archer when you have atalanta that has more tanking abilities, higher dps, higher attack rating.

Few notes:

1. Assassin is a 1v1 class. She has nothing but 1v1, so ofc she should excell there. I do agree that her additional AR with stealth mode is broken and should be nerfed to around 80% or so.

2. Brawler is a pvp class too. She shouldn't be as good as ass in 1v1 and she is strong and have some OP threats, but its a new class that will be nerfed later on.

3. Ata is far stronger than what she should be due to GM boosting a balanced class in pvp big time ( none rage mode) ,and slightly boosting her rage mode too. It made sense to boost her regular mode and nerf the rage mode, that much I agree.

 

Btw, about tank more- you always count ur as tankyness without shield, yet count other class tankyness such as fs/ks/mech with shield. Except mech who doesn't need shield at all, the rest of em do. Unlike your archer who can shoot from distance, she can switch to shield, be close to unhitable, run away, then fire with 2h weapon till she gets 2 crits in a row ( and when you pretty much ignore your opponent deff, and have nice crit it is bound to happen pretty soon).

 

Also as has 2 modes, 1 is pure hp and agi+ summer for 1v1, in that mode her attack speed is also higher than everyone else but ata/ass, and her brute force + AR is better,and she also has an armor build, for team fights( can also go summer due to range), and in there- your deff totally outdo the melees , you still get to have high enough hp to survive 2 crits, and high enough damage to kill in 2 crits. In that mode you still outdo every class attack speed animation ( the time to cast 2 PH< everyone else time to cast a 2 hits skill ( cl 3 ) except ata/ass, and unlike most of those classes you can pot between the hits), have nice crit, insanely high AR, range, running speed to avoid people hitting you in addition to high deff, block and evade ( shield mode in armor mode makes you close to unhitable) , means even when ppl are ganging up on you, they probably wont kill you cause it will take a while to land a hit, and till it is supposed to connect, you are already far away. In addition to sniping players from range, with insane high+ nice crits- means you just have to go in , click on a player , and the RNG makes you kill him effortlessly.

 

What Im saying also counts ata ofc, and in ata's rage mode its several times more broken.

So yeah, when u have a class like this, it means that it is OP. Those 2 classes atm( as/ata) are not in where they are supposed to be, at BC strength wise.

 

Good analogy- saying that having 7k AR is part of the class, while giving up some hp which won't matter in surviving, is like saying that you like a balance of fs having 5k hp, when ur as has 2400, and your as AR is 7500, while he gets to 7000 AR with skill in that balance, and when you complain about him having too much of a brute force, he answers you that brute force is what his character is designed for, and you have more AR in exchange ( which again, won't matter in those values ).

Hope that analogy helps to understand the point.

Edited November 22, 2021 by TigerShark22