why is ss so undervalued in the game?

[VacaGoiaba 23]

why is ss so undervalued in the game? the majority of character sales on the forum are from ss , the character is so they forgot about him.

[Hadden 167]

maybee Shaman's role/playstyle is not much attractive ?

[- D E A T H S T R O K E - 1,760]

4 hours ago, ZeusRox said:

It's happen because SS is a weak class. What reason you select shaman for someone thing in the game if you have better options? 

Exactly, as someone that used to have shaman with high end items [ph 142 robe orb 144] at the time that they were worthy, and now I'm using a mage: the main reason I changed is because shaman is fairly mediocre at everything, like really mediocre, his AoE DPS is pretty meh, and he is pretty okish on shadow mostly because of the speed for the team, on pvp I can't say how a shaman with relics is doing but with 140+24 items he is also pretty meh.

Mage is weaker on pvp, but, he is far far better on PvE.

Right now I have a mule shaman which main reasons to use it is to provide speed buff to my mage and lure monsters with his T2 skill.

[vhnh167 284]

5 hours ago, ZeusRox said:

It's happen because SS is a weak class. What reason you select shaman for someone thing in the game if you have better options? 

 

28 minutes ago, - D E A T H S T R O K E - said:

Exactly, as someone that used to have shaman with high end items [ph 142 robe orb 144] at the time that they were worthy, and now I'm using a mage: the main reason I changed is because shaman is fairly mediocre at everything, like really mediocre, his AoE DPS is pretty meh, and he is pretty okish on shadow mostly because of the speed for the team, on pvp I can't say how a shaman with relics is doing but with 140+24 items he is also pretty meh.

Mage is weaker on pvp, but, he is far far better on PvE.

Right now I have a mule shaman which main reasons to use it is to provide speed buff to my mage and lure monsters with his T2 skill.

Agreed. My main character is Shaman (150 with 140+24 items) and it's average at everything. I still stick with the character because it can participate in all kinds of activities (daily quests, LC, events, SOD, PvP, etc.) but does not excel at anything. Sometimes I wish shaman items and characters are valued a bit higher but I don't see this coming anytime soon. 

[TigerShark22 489]

7 hours ago, VacaGoiaba said:

why is ss so undervalued in the game? the majority of character sales on the forum are from ss , the character is so they forgot about him.

He's the 4th best tanker ( mass mobs PVE) and his AOE DPS are high if used correctly.

 

About 1v1, hes also a good choice when you tank and kill for yourself ( would rather do it with a SS over ks strengh wise for example, I just dont like it) , for 1v1 tanking only BS might outdo him, and DPS wise hes on par/ better than some melees.

 also good with a tanker, just not very good like rangers. He can be good at buffing his teammates with speed buff, so he can be desired, just not like rangers.

 

Strength wise hes attractive, just the thing is:

1. This class is new. Most people like classes that are old and nostalgic.

2. In this game, tanking for yourself is pretty useless, in order to get a party, u need a tank in SS, and to be a ranger/ mage. His DPS are good, just not in comparison to those.

3. Might be my own experience,. But I lvled a SS before PD, and this class was just boriing in my opinion. No hp pot, just spam scratch/ PN, and didn't even like it, so I left it.

Others might experienced it being boring and not wanting to play it again, or the other side of the community, afkers now dont like it cause u have to add PD to ur killing routine, and since they can't afk, they prefer a class which can. ( Still too boring in my opinion ).

 

Since that class is either too boring/ too active, nice at tanking ( underated at 1v1 tanking), good damage ( underated, but still not enough to compete ), so despite being good overall, no one will play it cause its not

good at what matters.

Also hes not a class PPL related to long ago, he doesn't have either very manly traits ( some players like it, like fs/ks/ ps), or female traits ( some like it), hes damb good overall, in my opinion he has the 2nd best overall PVE balance ( after mage),  just never the first pick to someone's preference.

Edited December 30, 2021 by TigerShark22

[- D E A T H S T R O K E - 1,760]

2 hours ago, TigerShark22 said:

He's the 4th best tanker ( mass mobs PVE) and his AOE DPS are high if used correctly.

 

pure spirit he might be the 4th best tanker compared to others pure damage classes, but a pure hp Priest is superior at tanking on 1x1 [ regen field or holy mind] and on Luminous cave [ ~1k more hp than full hp shaman+muspell evade + immortal are much better than abs on DG and enough for R8 SoD].

his AoE damage is also locked on Press deity, which requires 15 sec to archive full potential, if you try to target monsters with 100% hp, there is no scenario rather than luminous cave that a shaman could hit 10 times with press deity,even so, he would still be outdpsed by rangers. On a Real PvE scenario, Assassin and pike outdps him as well [ party Q+sod clan], so his selling point on team comps is pretty much speed for the team.

 

Being able to tank while doing damage sounds good on paper, but the entire game is built around having someone to tank for you, and when that happens 1. mediocre at tanking [ worse than mage,Ms,Ks,Bs and Prs], mediore AoE [ worse than mage, priest[+wartornado], assassin, pike, Atalanta, AS, FS might out dps him with cyclone+vortex as well but he requires to stay close], mediocre at 1x1 [ worse than mage,prs, auto ms, pike,Ata, AS, Assassin...], notice that mage and priest are on that list multiple times, and the difference is not even close.

Edited December 30, 2021 by - D E A T H S T R O K E -

[kenibok 1,059]

Everything said here is unluckily true :-c this class got many nerfs which made its offensive side one mortal more, while its tank side is also nothing special

 

12 hours ago, Hadden said:

maybee Shaman's role/playstyle is not much attractive ?

 

I agree with this a lot, I believe shaman lacks a clear identity today, its defense is similar to priestess but without the dynamic of hers, while its attack is monotonous and a little too level related, a 150 ss has too much of a difference with a 160 one. I think increasing its offensive abilities and dynamics are a must

[TigerShark22 489]

4 hours ago, - D E A T H S T R O K E - said:

 

pure spirit he might be the 4th best tanker compared to others pure damage classes, but a pure hp Priest is superior at tanking on 1x1 [ regen field or holy mind] and on Luminous cave [ ~1k more hp than full hp shaman+muspell evade + immortal are much better than abs on DG and enough for R8 SoD].

his AoE damage is also locked on Press deity, which requires 15 sec to archive full potential, if you try to target monsters with 100% hp, there is no scenario rather than luminous cave that a shaman could hit 10 times with press deity,even so, he would still be outdpsed by rangers. On a Real PvE scenario, Assassin and pike outdps him as well [ party Q+sod clan], so his selling point on team comps is pretty much speed for the team.

 

Being able to tank while doing damage sounds good on paper, but the entire game is built around having someone to tank for you, and when that happens 1. mediocre at tanking [ worse than mage,Ms,Ks,Bs and Prs], mediore AoE [ worse than mage, priest[+wartornado], assassin, pike, Atalanta, AS, FS might out dps him with cyclone+vortex as well but he requires to stay close], mediocre at 1x1 [ worse than mage,prs, auto ms, pike,Ata, AS, Assassin...], notice that mage and priest are on that list multiple times, and the difference is not even close.

Pure hp prs can't kill. Any pure hp class is better than base hp at 1v1 tanking. You might mean that ahe can regen and be a meat shield. Its screwed that its like this, but that's the game, and she's like that versus any class.

 

4th best at mass tanking, 2nd-3rd best at 1v1 tanking ( when you tank and kill for urself at SS , at the tanking part he loses only to BS, and might to a 1h power mech, and Im not sure, they are around equal there yet he kills way faster than those 2).

 

About AOE- pike venom spear has the same problem. Ass also gotta restack dots all over again in AOEs, and fs vortex makes him valurable ( he must tank , and he just can't, also be in close range ), and KS LS can be stopped due to either tanking or a stun ( also at LS u must stand still and cant move) . Also when ks/fs  use LS/Vortex they stop dealing damage with their main  AOE, and again, SS has range unlike those melees, to be able to AOE from range in tough spots such as LC medium/hard ( pike has to get close when he uses venom, ass and fs have to get close too, ks must be a 1h tank or is ****, BS must get close too, Im sorry but everyone have their own problems) .

 

At tanking he's not mediocore, he's good. 1v1 tanking he dies in the 5th hit when ks dies in the 7th but SS is much harder to hit, with 8.8k deff ( 8k deff PVE gears which are reasonable to get , 28% block and 410 abs , with around the same hp of pike/ass/ks).

 

At killing- AOE wise he's insane ( solo hes good, at LC hes damn good ) , at 1v1 he's mediocore at damage I agree, but you can't have it all, Im sorry but SS shouldn't deal more damage from classes like pike/fs/ass, and RN even compared to them hes too good ( or ofc not higher than pure rangers ).

 

The fact that mage Is OP doesn't make it so you can demand SS to be OP at overall PVE too.

 

Also I didn't even count team play when in addition to those stuffs, he has speed buff for his party.

 

About BC, Im sorry mate but nice AOE DPS, speed buff to ur party, high abs, nice hp, mediocore range puts him at 1 of the best class to have at SW, undoubtly top 3, at team fights hes also damn good, buffing his team, mediocre fighting abilities, the curse and stun , he's defiantly good.

 

The only problem is that he's good at everything, but doesn't excel at everything.

So being the 2nd choice at every aspect makes him an always close 2nd-3rd, but never the best so he's not picked too often compared to the meta classes ( rangers)

 

But dont get it wrong, compared to fs/pike/ass hes shining  and hes a new class in relative to those, and unlike those, when pike/fs are many to old school liking,SS doesn't have popular char love ( you can define it as:" Ill use it even when it sucks ), and because there were times he was OP, there were many SS, so the number of players in that class was insane, and now when he's still good, just not insane many left ( archer meta ), so correctly the supply of SS is insane, the demand cant keep up with it. If mech was to be nerfed a bit more ( PVE ) you might see it happens there, that a class which isn't weak has tons of supply , and it's price gonna drop.

[- D E A T H S T R O K E - 1,760]

1 hour ago, TigerShark22 said:

Pure hp prs can't kill. Any pure hp class is better than base hp at 1v1 tanking. You might mean that ahe can regen and be a meat shield. Its screwed that its like this, but that's the game, and she's like that versus any class.

 

4th best at mass tanking, 2nd-3rd best at 1v1 tanking ( when you tank and kill for urself at SS , at the tanking part he loses only to BS, and might to a 1h power mech, and Im not sure, they are around equal there yet he kills way faster than those 2).

I was talking about pure hp prs vs pure hp shaman,  although priest hp isn't that high when pure spirt, she'll out scale him by a lot, which makes her much better tanker for hard content and comparable on SoD. Also, you're pretty wrong if you think priest damage is low with pure hp, she only loses like ~40% of damage, 500 pts in vit and 3,4k hp, but, paired with mage's tornado she can still do 4~4.5k with CL+thunderstorm with wand, that's in fact close to shaman's DPS [ shaman with ph 142+24 can do ~5k with phantom nail, so the only thing here is the fast animation].

On 1x1 tanking although i agree that inertia is fairly strong, but holy mind is better and mage with dancing sword is also better, but none of that matter, because most of players use boss crystal or tanker anyway, and will get out dpsed either way.

 

1 hour ago, TigerShark22 said:

About AOE- pike venom spear has the same problem. Ass also gotta restack dots all over again in AOEs, and fs vortex makes him valurable ( he must tank , and he just can't, also be in close range ), and KS LS can be stopped due to either tanking or a stun ( also at LS u must stand still and cant move) . Also when ks/fs  use LS/Vortex they stop dealing damage with their main  AOE, and again, SS has range unlike those melees, to be able to AOE from range in tough spots such as LC medium/hard ( pike has to get close when he uses venom, ass and fs have to get close too, ks must be a 1h tank or is ****, BS must get close too, Im sorry but everyone have their own problems) .

 

I think you're overlooking the difference of DPS between shaman and other classes, Assassin and Mage does twice the damage AoE of a shaman, TWICE. Although pike doesn't have as much damage as mage/assassin, tornado has a pretty huge AoE and range, it's 180+50 range circle AoE, even without Venom spear pike will out DPS shaman on SoD and party quests and LC

and both assassin and pike can stay invisible.

I don't know FS/KS DPS after the buffs, but I'm pretty sure even if FS only use cyclone strike he will out DPS shaman with his crit rate alone.

 

1 hour ago, TigerShark22 said:

About BC, Im sorry mate but nice AOE DPS, speed buff to ur party, high abs, nice hp, mediocore range puts him at 1 of the best class to have at SW, undoubtly top 3, at team fights hes also damn good, buffing his team, mediocre fighting abilities, the curse and stun , he's defiantly good.

Are you sure about that?

-Tornado has 180 + 50 circle range which is insane for any AoE content, SW LC and SoD included.

-Assassin eye provide a massive 1x1 damage boost for you and your party bosses.

-Venom spear provides him enough DPS to solo contents.

-Pike is one of the best class for BC.

-Pike is one of the best melees to kill with tanker, with far better DPS than shaman, and, yes, tanker is also required for shaman, otherwise his speed buff is useless.

-Ground pike is the strongest slowdown skill of the game, yes, it is, a few months ago, a pike 16x -H- was going BC full hp and only using ground pike, it's a damn 50% reducion speed, with low CD and decent duration.

let's be honest here, pike is better than shaman if you have a priest, and, well, anyone can have a priest, and if you don't, mage is better at everything.

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by - D E A T H S T R O K E -

[TigerShark22 489]

4 hours ago, - D E A T H S T R O K E - said:

I was talking about pure hp prs vs pure hp shaman,  although priest hp isn't that high when pure spirt, she'll out scale him by a lot, which makes her much better tanker for hard content and comparable on SoD. Also, you're pretty wrong if you think priest damage is low with pure hp, she only loses like ~40% of damage, 500 pts in vit and 3,4k hp, but, paired with mage's tornado she can still do 4~4.5k with CL+thunderstorm with wand, that's in fact close to shaman's DPS [ shaman with ph 142+24 can do ~5k with phantom nail, so the only thing here is the fast animation].

On 1x1 tanking although i agree that inertia is fairly strong, but holy mind is better and mage with dancing sword is also better, but none of that matter, because most of players use boss crystal or tanker anyway, and will get out dpsed either way.

 

 

I think you're overlooking the difference of DPS between shaman and other classes, Assassin and Mage does twice the damage AoE of a shaman, TWICE. Although pike doesn't have as much damage as mage/assassin, tornado has a pretty huge AoE and range, it's 180+50 range circle AoE, even without Venom spear pike will out DPS shaman on SoD and party quests and LC

and both assassin and pike can stay invisible.

I don't know FS/KS DPS after the buffs, but I'm pretty sure even if FS only use cyclone strike he will out DPS shaman with his crit rate alone.

 

Are you sure about that?

-Tornado has 180 + 50 circle range which is insane for any AoE content, SW LC and SoD included.

-Assassin eye provide a massive 1x1 damage boost for you and your party bosses.

-Venom spear provides him enough DPS to solo contents.

-Pike is one of the best class for BC.

-Pike is one of the best melees to kill with tanker, with far better DPS than shaman, and, yes, tanker is also required for shaman, otherwise his speed buff is useless.

-Ground pike is the strongest slowdown skill of the game, yes, it is, a few months ago, a pike 16x -H- was going BC full hp and only using ground pike, it's a damn 50% reducion speed, with low CD and decent duration.

let's be honest here, pike is better than shaman if you have a priest, and, well, anyone can have a priest, and if you don't, mage is better at everything.

 

 

 

 

Why you aren't counting PD? PD is part of your strength and also speed.

And no, pike doesn't tank better than shaman, mass mobs tanking- loses big time.

1v1- compare 8.8k deff to 5.6k. pike had slightly more block, 34% versus 28%, and 25% evasion. Against most opponents you tank better. Scratch is also faster than CL.

 

When you wanna compare BC, compare everything:

 

SS- high abs, around the same HP, your skill s literally far stronger than tornado( AOE, pike uses 1h else it's an instant death) and its faster. And most importantly, he buffs his teammates. All of it makes him 1 of the top classes to SW. Your AOE's area might be smaller, but it can casted from long range, and you can pick ur target wisely, which is more than enough there ( also you can pick where to stand)

 

Pike- low abs ( cant tank ), venom range is small so its only tornado with 1h weapon ( and you can tell me if the damage of 1h spear looks appealing ( crappiest 1h in the game ). Hence pike doesn't really kill well, and doesn't really tank, his only strength that he had some low abillity picking where to stand ( and still AS, ATA, SS, PRS MGS has more flexibility than him , and magic classes literally tank better there and have more flexibility standing compare pike's area to 220 range+145 area, SS has insane reach compared to him, its not even a competition tornado's area is insane I agree, but in SW/LC reach with decent range outdo it. Its just good for the low rounds of sod. Also in the higher rounds SS has the potential to do more scores there).

 

About the GP strategy there- first, mage can do that too, and KS too. ( just better due to better damage on tower, and FAR better tanking abillity and they are far more effective for that strategy).

 

Also other players can target him, cause even with full HP, it's still not a good tanker there and ofc players can stay away from him ( 98 area is nothing in a server when rangers dominate the game, and also contains magic classes who can stay away from that too).

There is a reason he doesn't do it anymore, cause it is suck compared to the other 2 alternatives of that move,and sometimes even just blasting is better ( and ofc its a role, and when others fill it better, he has nothing left).

 

 

 

Now team fights- SS- mediocore abillities, but buffs his team to the lvl they can completely dominate their opponent. +1 attack speed is insane, and saw the diff of it as a fs/ks before, insane to the lvl it has big influence over the fight.

 

Pike- hit and run with vanish ( in a game every 2 hits of spamable skill max kill, except CL btw, which is his skill, the abillity to 1 hit with that isn't too special).

can fight only when ur side has higher numbers, else its hit and run to the lvl you don't change the outcome, you just farm BPs when you luck out ( or die if too many hit you ).

Can't really stand up, cause RN if its CL vs something, CL loses. Can ground pike, but can be stunned /cast curses at you in return ( or just kill you cause you die fast, so pike is a periority to attack) .

 

Now 1v1-

I think we even ranked classes before.

RN top 4 are BS, AS, Ata, Ass.

After that there's a pike who plays well and mech.

Than the tier of SS comes.

 

The diff from a class that excells at SW and good at team fights from a class that is **** on both of em is really small. So yeah, even at BC he's not bad, he just has a diff rule, and since most people of our generation are self centered, ofc supporting is not nessecerly to their liking.

 

 

Also about fs cyclone-  it's crap. PN even pre buff>> cyclone ( and I had a SS between my first fs, to my 4th pick fs, to confirm it fully, without any slight of doubt) .

 

 And ofc that is in the case that fs CAN tank with 2h weapon ( and in LC/SW he can't, he must use 1h axe with 17% crit, and not his ideal damage, and he must stay close, and also in addition to being garbage, forcing him to stay close makes total garbage compared to SS).

 

Also the vortex won't turn the tables after the buff on PN,  as long as PD exists. Defiantly no ( and especially not in SW and LC, when you actually need to tank there, so the vortex is disabled. Also ofc since you mentioned sod, any stun can stop the vortex, and since its only a 100 area skill which can't stun- on the class which is easiest to hit- the slight stun you dont count as a SS is very tricky and game changing for fs, and even when kiting em ideally and timing the vortex perfectly, in this situation sometimes its not enough ).

 

Ofc when you can't even tank with 1h- even the tanker doesn't really help too much ( 100 area of insane damage skill yes, but its only 50 in front of you+ cant pot, so it's really not effective/ 145 area around fs= 72.5 front area of a low AOE DPS skill, versus 220 range to pick where you want high  DPS skills with 145 or 130 area. Fs is outmatched badly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[- D E A T H S T R O K E - 1,760]

52 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

SS- high abs, around the same HP, your skill s literally far stronger than tornado( AOE, pike uses 1h else it's an instant death) and its faster. And most importantly, he buffs his teammates. All of it makes him 1 of the top classes to SW. Your AOE's area might be smaller, but it can casted from long range, and you can pick ur target wisely, which is more than enough there ( also you can pick where to stand)

 

Pike- low abs ( cant tank ), venom range is small so its only tornado with 1h weapon ( and you can tell me if the damage of 1h spear looks appealing ( crappiest 1h in the game ). Hence pike doesn't really kill well, and doesn't really tank, his only strength that he had some low abillity picking where to stand ( and still AS, ATA, SS, PRS MGS has more flexibility than him , and magic classes literally tank better there and have more flexibility standing compare pike's area to 220 range+145 area, SS has insane reach compared to him, its not even a competition tornado's area is insane I agree, but in SW/LC reach with decent range outdo it. Its just good for the low rounds of sod. Also in the higher rounds SS has the potential to do more scores there).

Are you seriously trying to convince me that shaman AoE is better than pike's?

just check sod clan ranking, just check solo sod ranking or BC rank few months ago when Sw were happening [ it was full pike]

 

you talk as if the difference of range between shaman and pike is huge... it's only 40, tornado is 180, phantom nail is 220, on the other hand:

 

the difference of damage on weapon 1 hand vs 1 hand isn't that much, but 2 hand... 133-205 vs 149-160, on top of that:

-Every 130 strength (add 130 extra strength) = 100% weapon damage boost (Fighter/Pikeman/Assassin/Knight/Brawler wearing melee weapons )

-Every 150 spirit (add 150 extra spirit) = 100% weapon damage boost (Magician/Shaman wearing Staff/Wand)

 

better damage formula, oh but the damage boost of shaman are high to compensate, right?

 

wrong, they aren't,  shaman is indeed faster, but do you really think a few micro seconds faster is enough?

but at least shaman has big AoE, right?

 

 

just look at that thing, it's 180+80, shaman is 145, that's 3 times more Area than phantom nail and almost twice the radius.

 

Pike with tanker kills faster than shaman, Pike is stronger than shaman on SW, Pike is stronger than shaman on SoD, Pike is better than shaman on pvp, and can still provide broken support with ground pike:

52 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

Also other players can target him, cause even with full HP, it's still not a good tanker there and ofc players can stay away from him ( 98 area is nothing in a server when rangers dominate the game, and also contains magic classes who can stay away from that too).

false again, he stopped because he lost his char, also, pike full hp tanks more, way more than  shaman because of dodge and 25%evade, isn't evade the reason archer tanks well on pvp? why would it be different with pike?

 

and that's just pike.. if it was compared to Priest, mage, assassin, atalanta, AS... seriously, when I say that phantom nail is ''mediocre'' is actually a compliment,

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by - D E A T H S T R O K E -

[TigerShark22 489]

52 minutes ago, - D E A T H S T R O K E - said:

Are you seriously trying to convince me that shaman AoE is better than pike's?

just check sod clan ranking, just check solo sod ranking or BC rank few months ago when Sw were happening [ it was full pike]

 

you talk as if the difference of range between shaman and pike is huge... it's only 40, tornado is 180, phantom nail is 220, on the other hand:

 

the difference of damage on weapon 1 hand vs 1 hand isn't that much, but 2 hand... 133-205 vs 149-160, on top of that:

-Every 130 strength (add 130 extra strength) = 100% weapon damage boost (Fighter/Pikeman/Assassin/Knight/Brawler wearing melee weapons )

-Every 150 spirit (add 150 extra spirit) = 100% weapon damage boost (Magician/Shaman wearing Staff/Wand)

 

better damage formula, oh but the damage boost of shaman are high to compensate, right?

 

wrong, they aren't,  shaman is indeed faster, but do you really think a few micro seconds faster is enough?

but at least shaman has big AoE, right?

 

 

just look at that thing, it's 180+80, shaman is 145, that's 3 times more Area than phantom nail and almost twice the radius.

 

Pike with tanker kills faster than shaman, Pike is stronger than shaman on SW, Pike is stronger than shaman on SoD, Pike is better than shaman on pvp, and can still provide broken support with ground pike:

false again, he stopped because he lost his char, also, pike full hp tanks more, way more than  shaman because of dodge and 25%evade, isn't evade the reason archer tanks well on pvp? why would it be different with pike?

 

 

 

 

So many wrongs here.

115-169 versus149- 160- you give up 9 max for 34 min, thats like around 3 weapon upgrades ( average damage, thats what you use in SW).

 

And no, as isn't a good tank for SW, I have never once said that. Shes insane tank for team fights, not SW, in SW she has the flexibility on where to stand/ protect the castle, that's diff, I did say that she's good in SW, but never because Evade saves her( and she had way more of it) . In SW what matter is abs/range/ support skills and you know it. Evade/hp /block/deff wont save you there. At mass tanking, abs is the most important stat. And dodge: "3 secs of 5 hits"- in SW 5 hits happen in an instant, and u get ur hp down, and might even end up dead if careless cause low abs compared to tankers/magic classes.  Dodge isn't really useful for SW, its a 1v1/ team fights skill.

 

About GP- low abs,  till u get players in that 98 range, you will just die. And again, that role has a limit to the number of players who can forfill it, and you have 2 classes which are the far better choice ( realistic ones I might add, and ofc- 5/11 classes don't really care about it cause they are out of hell zones. Those who do aren't too worried about the fact that it can be evades/ or mostly- the pike will just die instantly if he enters a hell zone).

 

About area- 180+80 versus 220 range to pick Where you put that 145 area. I agree that tornado's radius is insane, but you attack from 180 range, and the damage is crap with 1h. You mostly do some low damage on others, and those u can hit due to the radius are usually out of other's AOE hell zones, and it doesn't really matter ( unless all the server will switch to pike magically so more players will be effected) .

 

Also venom is not a viable strategy due to having 126 area In which you have to get close to the target( unlike SS) and in pvp its 8 spears, not 100.

 

Having 220 range to pick where you want that 145 area, while being the 4th best tank in SW ( and unlike the first 2,  you have range, so you can stay out of hell zones+ a support buff) . Also at defence, pike's range is too low, and SS can protect the castle from the ranger's spot.

So it's 1 of the top 3 classes, which has nearly everything.

 

In PVE- first, you can ask the players who shout for ranger/mage/ SS at L cave. Speed buff+ high AOE DPS ( not mage high, but high). 

 

For sod I agree that till R7, pike is the better 1 though ( about clan sods- remember that when everyone are not close enough to each others, so range matters more. And when few pikes/prs who ice meteor, SS doesn't really have what to hit. And also mages do have lower scores usually than pike/ prs and Im sure that not a single player here thinks that tornado/ice meteor are stronger. In fact, no one even thinks that CL/ vigor ball are better). R7 R8- SS all the way.

Also ofc the impact that the scores don't show- the insane diff with speed buff. Thats why 2 SS are a must there. 

 

About killing faster- you mean 1v1 right? There yes.

Also- in 1v1- no range at all.

Overall PVE: to ultilize his AOE damage- pike needs to stay close.

 

SS has over pike at pve- 1. Mass mobs tanking.

2. 1v1 tanking.

3. Range

4. Support buff skill.

5. When the pike cant use 2h/  venom spear-  AOE damage.

 

Pike had over SS:

1. 1v1 DPS with tank 

 

 

Overall PVP:

SS>>>> PS SW

SS>>PS team fights.

 

Pike has the upper hand ( slightly ) at 1v1 though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by TigerShark22

[- D E A T H S T R O K E - 1,760]

12 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

115-169 versus149- 160- you give up 9 max for 34 min, thats like around 3 weapon upgrades ( average damage, thats what you use in SW).

115+169/2 => 142

149+160/2 => 154

even if you consider average ATK, pike's formula is better than shaman's [130/str].

12 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

the damage is crap with 1h.

isn't shaman damage crap too if both are really close to each other when with 1 hand?

 

28 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

About area- 180+80 versus 220 range to pick Where you put that 145 area.

you pick 145 of area, so it will be 72 forward and 72 backward , meaning that the actual difference is only 40 range but with much wider AoE, not to mention that pike can still stay invisible and Vague gives AoE evade.

 

15 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

Overall PVP:

SS>>>> PS SW

SS>>PS team fights.

false, Pike is good at Sw, pretty good, again, you're overlooking tornado range and damage, honestly, I've done SW with pikes before, and in fact, pike K/D is one of the highest, you're again trying to paint as if 220 range with a 145 aoe is better than 260 circular area skill, it's not, you can hit 3 times more players with that.

 

Also, he is good on team fights as well, he is just not a mule of speed, his niche is backstab and can use ground pike, but on top of that, he is also better on 1x1 pvp, not to mention that pike with shield tanks more than shaman on pvp, or that you forgot?

 

17 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

4. Support buff skill.

Assassin eye actually provide better support for bosses than advent of midranda [ it's 40% cri damage and 13% crit rate], although I agree that speed is better for AoE.

 

and notice, that everything is compared to pike, his direct competition are mage and priest, and both whoop him at every content that's not pvp [better support, tanks better, better AoE, better 1x1 DpS...] , while priest being arguable slight better or at same power level on pvp.

 

Also, lets not forget that for shaman buff of speed to be useful on shadow sanc he needs a tanker, otherwise the range is not enough. So what's the point of being a shaman? helping others to drop 144 items?

[TigerShark22 489]

2 hours ago, - D E A T H S T R O K E - said:

115+169/2 => 142

149+160/2 => 154

even if you consider average ATK, pike's formula is better than shaman's [130/str].

isn't shaman damage crap too if both are really close to each other when with 1 hand?

 

you pick 145 of area, so it will be 72 forward and 72 backward , meaning that the actual difference is only 40 range but with much wider AoE, not to mention that pike can still stay invisible and Vague gives AoE evade.

 

false, Pike is good at Sw, pretty good, again, you're overlooking tornado range and damage, honestly, I've done SW with pikes before, and in fact, pike K/D is one of the highest, you're again trying to paint as if 220 range with a 145 aoe is better than 260 circular area skill, it's not, you can hit 3 times more players with that.

 

Also, he is good on team fights as well, he is just not a mule of speed, his niche is backstab and can use ground pike, but on top of that, he is also better on 1x1 pvp, not to mention that pike with shield tanks more than shaman on pvp, or that you forgot?

 

Assassin eye actually provide better support for bosses than advent of midranda [ it's 40% cri damage and 13% crit rate], although I agree that speed is better for AoE.

 

and notice, that everything is compared to pike, his direct competition are mage and priest, and both whoop him at every content that's not pvp [better support, tanks better, better AoE, better 1x1 DpS...] , while priest being arguable slight better or at same power level on pvp.

 

Also, lets not forget that for shaman buff of speed to be useful on shadow sanc he needs a tanker, otherwise the range is not enough. So what's the point of being a shaman? helping others to drop 144 items?

You are assuming that the density of the players is disturbed equally in all the possible castle area. Its not. They are concentrated at few spots, and those who suffer from tornado's range and not PN are players who also are outside of a hellzones and those just feel some breeze, cause only few players hit em. Hence it doesn't really give you much of adventage.

you target a tower, and some of those around it, that's it.

And when he goes full vit for GP, still can't tank mass damage, just might live when he will cast it, but 0 damage, and he will still die a lot, and will barely freeze anyone, cause players are out of reach/ kill him.

Imagine the meme of:" genius "- that pike deserves it.

 

( And again, it makes much more sense to LS with a ks/ disto with a mage, and when those fill up those roles so much better, sending him to do it is pretty much nonsense) .

 

 

SS has higher damage boost, and faster speed. What gives him the ultility there is the abs and the speed buff to his allies , and more flexibility located himself. Worth far more, to the lvl its not even an argument to take 1 of the top SW classes to the worst. 

 

About being good in team fights- you need to make your side win. That's what being good in team fights means. Speed buff gives high adventage to the lvl in help finish battles fast, and increase any of SS's party members the chance fo win by a lot ( that 15% speed translate to lets say instead of being 1 skill vs 1 skill when each player tries to time it well, to 1 skill and a hit till the pot is activated ( not a skill only being finished). Its helps win battles and turns the table.

 

About backstabbing- in a server each skill is a kill, a hit kill with vanish isn't really special. Its better to just have more hits landed on others. Its pretty useless to assassinate ( which has low chance to happen anyway, and ass does it better)

 

About 1h tanking- 6.7k deff vs 8.8k ( pike doesn't use deff Sheltom cause for him its useless), 41% block vs 28%, but pike has 25% more evade ( as you were saying in other post, its not+25% avoid hit chance, its less cause evade is last) .

A choice of 2100 deff vs, less than 13% block and 25% evade, which is better depends on your opponent, but:

CL is 65% damage boost, 165%x3 is 495% ( but abs is counted 3 times ) with 2900 AR but 56% crit ( 142 scythe barely adds AR, and when the weapon doesn't add AR, pike suffers from it tremendously, and in order to hit and crit 3 times, the chances of it to happen are slim) versus 580% damage boost ( abs is counted twice only, so even if it was 495%, versus your SS you take out 420 damage diff, which is insane), 4300 AR, 23% crit ( for team fights AR> crit cause your mates stack damage on a target together).

Both will add points in vit, when SS will have far higher brute force. Nobody uses 1h CL cause its pretty useless.

Also CL animation is slower.

 

About AE at bosses- you also support your competitors, its only good in LC's bosses, when you don't have any. About any other activity speed buff>>>>> AE. ( Also its not smart to use it, you just lose DPS in comparison to others when casting it, and you make em kill the bosses faster. It just reduces ur chance of seeing a drop).

 

 

About needing a tank- SS is either few casual players, that don't really care what you are/ a party of players ( rangers mostly) + tank that want you to have a tank, and after the top 4, SS is next in the list of getting in.

 

 

[DeadlyWarrior 688]

Damn this TigerShark is good. Knows the game very deeply. 

 

 

[- D E A T H S T R O K E - 1,760]

4 hours ago, TigerShark22 said:

You are assuming that the density of the players is disturbed equally in all the possible castle area. Its not. They are concentrated at few spots, and those who suffer from tornado's range and not PN are players who also are outside of a hellzones and those just feel some breeze, cause only few players hit em. Hence it doesn't really give you much of adventage.

you target a tower, and some of those around it, that's it.

And when he goes full vit for GP, still can't tank mass damage, just might live when he will cast it, but 0 damage, and he will still die a lot, and will barely freeze anyone, cause players are out of reach/ kill him.

Imagine the meme of:" genius "- that pike deserves it.

 

( And again, it makes much more sense to LS with a ks/ disto with a mage, and when those fill up those roles so much better, sending him to do it is pretty much nonsense) .

You've never played with a pike on SW, that's the only thing you're showing me:

first, look at tornado range:

 

Enough to reach the entire BC bridge, yes, it is, now imagine that on vahalha.

 

now the damage boost

 

Although shattered can crit and Fist's damage range is better, it's 206% damage boost for a spamable skill, check all melees and see if any character has 2xx% damage boost with a spamable skill, the only one close is kinght's bradish [198%], but bradish Area is not half of Tornado.

anyone who has a pike 156+ can confirm that tornado damage is no joke, what happens when we have both AoE and damage boost combined?

 

Pike doesn't die on half as much the ''hellzone'' as you are trying to paint, in fact, he barely dies.

 

4 hours ago, TigerShark22 said:

SS has higher damage boost, and faster speed. What gives him the ultility there is the abs and the speed buff to his allies , and more flexibility located himself. Worth far more, to the lvl its not even an argument to take 1 of the top SW classes to the worst. 

the difference of damage boost of tornado and phantom nail is 306% vs 326%, did you forgot that?

326/306 => 1,06, phantom nail damage boost is 6% better than tornado, on the other hand

8 hours ago, - D E A T H S T R O K E - said:

115+169/2 => 142

149+160/2 => 154

even if you consider average ATK, pike's formula is better than shaman's [130/str].

shaman gets 150/spirit, pike 130/str, meaning that pikes damage formua is 15% better than shaman's [150/130]

so 142+15% => ~163 base, with 1 hand.

163/154 => 1,06, meaning that pike with 1 hand has a 6% higher base damage, literally, they have the EXACTLY same average damage phantom nail vs tornado 1hand with the difference that tornado AoE is >>> phantom nail and PN animation is faster, something like 1 extra phantom nail every 10 sec.

 

4 hours ago, TigerShark22 said:

About being good in team fights- you need to make your side win. That's what being good in team fights means. Speed buff gives high adventage to the lvl in help finish battles fast, and increase any of SS's party members the chance fo win by a lot ( that 15% speed translate to lets say instead of being 1 skill vs 1 skill when each player tries to time it well, to 1 skill and a hit till the pot is activated ( not a skill only being finished). Its helps win battles and turns the table.

and isn't backstabbing a way to make your team win? you're trying to say that speed is wow fantastic, but damage isn't, but in fact, both are good in different ways, just like KS stun is one of the strongest team skills of the game, just like fighter's roar can be used to AoE stun so 3 players can focus only one player, just like ground pike slow can lead to death as well, just like backstabbing someone with 2 hands will lead your team to win... it's just a different role.

and, please, don't say that vanish is bad, it's not.

 

4 hours ago, TigerShark22 said:

About 1h tanking- 6.7k deff vs 8.8k ( pike doesn't use deff Sheltom cause for him its useless), 41% block vs 28%, but pike has 25% more evade ( as you were saying in other post, its not+25% avoid hit chance, its less cause evade is last) .

orbs have 27% block, so the difference is 14% orb vs shield, and 1,6k defense extra for orb 144 and 1,4k for orb 140. 14% block is somewhat comparable to 1,4 k defense [ worse vs AS/Ass, better vs pike] which means that, the 25% AoE evade is just an extra for him and, yes evade is better for PvP 1x1 than Abs

 

Besides, he doesn't get hit that often on SW because  he can stay invisible, so only if you're close you'll notice him and 180 is already enough range to stay way from AoE skills. Just imagine, a shaman targets a MS on the vahalha, most of aoe skill will have a splash of 145, pike has enough range to target the same ms and don't get hit by phantom nail, nor mage dias, nor ms impulsion...

 

Also, saying that pike is locked to t sheltom damage is false, both shaman and pike can utilize damage mix and defense mix, in fact, you should buy 2 sheltoms with each mix for any class.

 

 

5 hours ago, TigerShark22 said:

CL is 65% damage boost, 165%x3 is 495% ( but abs is counted 3 times ) with 2900 AR but 56% crit ( 142 scythe barely adds AR, and when the weapon doesn't add AR, pike suffers from it tremendously, and in order to hit and crit 3 times, the chances of it to happen are slim) versus 580% damage boost ( abs is counted twice only, so even if it was 495%, versus your SS you take out 420 damage diff, which is insane), 4300 AR, 23% crit ( for team fights AR> crit cause your mates stack damage on a target together).

Both will add points in vit, when SS will have far higher brute force. Nobody uses 1h CL cause its pretty useless.

Also CL animation is slower.

I'll admit that CL with 1 hand is trash [it doesn't have AR /1], but it doesn't change the fact that pike still out dps shaman when he has a tanker, and on pvp he has enough ways to keep himself alive, and it doesn't change that pike with 1 hand is comparable with shaman damage but with much better area.

 

5 hours ago, TigerShark22 said:

About AE at bosses- you also support your competitors, its only good in LC's bosses, when you don't have any. About any other activity speed buff>>>>> AE. ( Also its not smart to use it, you just lose DPS in comparison to others when casting it, and you make em kill the bosses faster. It just reduces ur chance of seeing a drop).

ok, even if the speed buff is better on most of situations, remember, shaman competition is not pike, it's mage and priest.

I can assure you that both mage has comparable offensive support on most of situations and much more powerful in a few specific ones. Priest support is mostly defensive but still, they both provide support and either high damage or wide AoE+freeze.

 

Notice that this compassion is with a class wich AoE dps is not the main focus, Pike tornado doesn't out dps mage nor assassin.

[moobie1988 1,233]

Too be honest I dont think you should be comparing shaman vs pikeman when It comes to tanking. Surely everybody knows that Pikeman wins over any class. Just because it has DODGE. If you think mob tanking it still depends on the player. Just use vanish, ground pike and tornado. For PVP. Pikeman are not ment to tank. If they can then that would only result for the pikeman class to be overpowered. They are like assasins, with the ability to tank more and deal a burst critical damage. 

 

Lastly, I think at the moment, pikeman class is the closest to a well balanced class in game.

Edited December 31, 2021 by moobie1988

[Hulk 332]

Nerf SS, Buff AS

[- D E A T H S T R O K E - 1,760]

17 minutes ago, moobie1988 said:

Too be honest I dont think you should be comparing shaman vs pikeman when It comes to tanking. Surely everybody knows that Pikeman wins over any class. Just because it has DODGE. If you think mob tanking it still depends on the player. Just use vanish, ground pike and tornado. For PVP. Pikeman are not ment to tank. If they can then that would only result for the pikeman class to be overpowered. They are like assasins, with the ability to tank more and deal a burst critical damage. 

 

Lastly, I think at the moment, pikeman class is the closest to a well balanced class in game.

I'm not saying he is OP, you're right, he is actually balanced. I'm just proving my point that saying that pike is **** and shaman is a god is pure ownership bias

also, you're right, shaman should be compared to mage, and as someone who have both mage and shaman => mage>>>>>>>>>>>>shaman

Edited December 31, 2021 by - D E A T H S T R O K E -

[TigerShark22 489]

1 hour ago, - D E A T H S T R O K E - said:

You've never played with a pike on SW, that's the only thing you're showing me:

first, look at tornado range:

 

Enough to reach the entire BC bridge, yes, it is, now imagine that on vahalha.

 

now the damage boost

 

Although shattered can crit and Fist's damage range is better, it's 206% damage boost for a spamable skill, check all melees and see if any character has 2xx% damage boost with a spamable skill, the only one close is kinght's bradish [198%], but bradish Area is not half of Tornado.

anyone who has a pike 156+ can confirm that tornado damage is no joke, what happens when we have both AoE and damage boost combined?

 

Pike doesn't die on half as much the ''hellzone'' as you are trying to paint, in fact, he barely dies.

 

the difference of damage boost of tornado and phantom nail is 306% vs 326%, did you forgot that?

326/306 => 1,06, phantom nail damage boost is 6% better than tornado, on the other hand

shaman gets 150/spirit, pike 130/str, meaning that pikes damage formua is 15% better than shaman's [150/130]

so 142+15% => ~163 base, with 1 hand.

163/154 => 1,06, meaning that pike with 1 hand has a 6% higher base damage, literally, they have the EXACTLY same average damage phantom nail vs tornado 1hand with the difference that tornado AoE is >>> phantom nail and PN animation is faster, something like 1 extra phantom nail every 10 sec.

 

and isn't backstabbing a way to make your team win? you're trying to say that speed is wow fantastic, but damage isn't, but in fact, both are good in different ways, just like KS stun is one of the strongest team skills of the game, just like fighter's roar can be used to AoE stun so 3 players can focus only one player, just like ground pike slow can lead to death as well, just like backstabbing someone with 2 hands will lead your team to win... it's just a different role.

and, please, don't say that vanish is bad, it's not.

 

orbs have 27% block, so the difference is 14% orb vs shield, and 1,6k defense extra for orb 144 and 1,4k for orb 140. 14% block is somewhat comparable to 1,4 k defense [ worse vs AS/Ass, better vs pike] which means that, the 25% AoE evade is just an extra for him and, yes evade is better for PvP 1x1 than Abs

 

Besides, he doesn't get hit that often on SW because  he can stay invisible, so only if you're close you'll notice him and 180 is already enough range to stay way from AoE skills. Just imagine, a shaman targets a MS on the vahalha, most of aoe skill will have a splash of 145, pike has enough range to target the same ms and don't get hit by phantom nail, nor mage dias, nor ms impulsion...

 

Also, saying that pike is locked to t sheltom damage is false, both shaman and pike can utilize damage mix and defense mix, in fact, you should buy 2 sheltoms with each mix for any class.

 

 

I'll admit that CL with 1 hand is trash [it doesn't have AR /1], but it doesn't change the fact that pike still out dps shaman when he has a tanker, and on pvp he has enough ways to keep himself alive, and it doesn't change that pike with 1 hand is comparable with shaman damage but with much better area.

 

ok, even if the speed buff is better on most of situations, remember, shaman competition is not pike, it's mage and priest.

I can assure you that both mage has comparable offensive support on most of situations and much more powerful in a few specific ones. Priest support is mostly defensive but still, they both provide support and either high damage or wide AoE+freeze.

 

Notice that this compassion is with a class wich AoE dps is not the main focus, Pike tornado doesn't out dps mage nor assassin.

 

1. 106% damage boost, 206% per hit ,but it does 2 hits and can crit. also the base damage of brawler is much higher, their weapon is 180-215. her average damage is literally so much higher than pike's  max. cant be a comparison.

 

2. Yeah tornado's area is no joke, but you have a diff advantage. on the bridge its good, but what about the towers? at the towers whenever its tornado's range or PN it doesnt matter, and standing far away is much better advantage.

.

3. you compare a 340 abs to 420 abs classes. SS takes around 80 hp less hp per hit on average, and in the numbers of AOE, its 40% damage reduction. ( 200-80=120 ., done by some mediocore damage AOE class ).  " Dodge " - 5 hits when I cant even count how many ppl are AOEing you- overs in an instant. Pike is literally around fs at tanking at SW, less hp, but AOE evade which keeps him alive and counts around like the hp fs has ( the diff is mostly that 10 abs ).

 

3 classes can tank IC and kill- mage ks SS, it is known for decades, because of their abs, not evade, evade wont make a class a tanker at mass mobs AOE tanking.

Also mostly 2 classes can tank R8 ks and mage, yet SS is so close to the lvl you can literally kite and kill. a pike which engages at R8 dies instantly. same about BC, you cant compare SS to a pike in tanking.

4. Even if SS and pike will have around same base damage, SS still has higher damage boost, and his skill is faster. but most importantly, you buff 5 others with ya.

 

4. you mentioned that ks/ mech were OP at SW before their nerfs due to their tanking abillity. not sure if you are right, But RN SS deals better damage than him ( 1h weapon , slow animation of brandish ) and you tank around the same as him, can avoid hell zones and buff your team, SS RN is better in SW than ks, and is even on par on pre nerf ks ( you have other things he didnt have ).

 

The adventage of being a pike over SS is just tornado's range over the bridge ( and is a much weaker tanker who dies fast, and doesnt buff his team ). after that SS >>>>> pike at SW. you cant deny that.

 

Also why are you keep mentioning dodge?  it lasts for 5 hits only, and an experienced pike such as yourself must know it, and know that in SW it means nothing.

 

I also didnt say that pike is ****, but he is weak overall compared to what hes supposed to be able to do in 1v1. I do know that he has other things he can do, but defiantly not SW. You were the only biased 1 here.

 

Also team fights- Lets say there are 12 players in each team in team fights, in those team 10 classes are the same between each time, and the 2 last in team A is SS and 2 last in team B is pike.

 

The 2 SS buff their other 10 friends, making em killing mechines who destroy the others. the 2 other participate in the fight and help killing others/ debuffing/ stunning.

What the 2 pikes do? try to hit and run, most likely wont kill, and run away? you actually think that's what a class that is good in team fights can do?

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by TigerShark22

[- D E A T H S T R O K E - 1,760]

 

4 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

1. 106% damage boost, 206% per hit ,but it does 2 hits and can crit. also the base damage of brawler is much higher, their weapon is 180-215. her average damage is my max, and my max is very far from my min. cant be a comparison.

You're trying to dodge the question, 206% damage boost, no CD 260 area, show me a comparable skill to that.

in fact, it's the proof that phantom nail is mediocre, there are so many skills better than it that we could make a scale list based on phantom nail.

 

 

5 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

2. Yeah tornado's area is no joke, but you have a diff advantage. on the bridge its good, but what about the towers? at the towers whenever its tornado's range or PN it doesnt matter, and standing far away is much better advantage.

Do you really think that tower and vahalha will be any different? the bridge is actually the hardest part to play with pike, because AS can see you.

same advantage, AoE enough to hit everyone on tower.

pike went from '' garbage at SW'' to ''only useful at the bridge'', and it's false again, pike is good on SW, I can assure you.

I did plenty of SW as pike before.

6 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

. you compare a 340 abs to 420 abs classes. SS takes around 80 hp less hp per hit on average, and in the numbers of AOE, its 40% damage reduction. ( 200-80=120 ., done by some mediocore damage AOE class ).  " Dodge " - 5 hits when I cant even count how many ppl are AOEing you- overs in an instant. Pike is literally around fs at tanking at SW, less hp, but AOE evade which keeps him alive and counts around like the hp fs has ( the diff is mostly that 10 abs ).

the point is: pike can survive just enough while doing high damage,and even so, his damage is comparable with 1 hand, you don't need to use 1h that often though.

just look at the print on the bridge, even there pike barely dies.

invisible: you need to be really close to see pike

Vague: AoE evade

Tornado range: 180 range vs 220 range is not a big difference because most of aoe skill aoe is 145, except, guess what, tornado

10 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

3 classes can tank IC and kill- mage ks SS, it is known for decades, because of their abs, not evade, evade wont make a class a tanker at mass mobs AOE tanking.

Also mostly 2 classes can tank R8 ks and mage, yet SS is so close to the lvl you can literally kite and kill. a pike which engages at R8 dies instantly. same about BC, you cant compare SS to a pike in tanking.

ok, iron core is the most import thing on the game, right?

even so, pike with shield tank IC enough, and can attack the ranged monsters that shaman can't, Also, lets not forget that we now have Bread that gives 20 abs, so the entire ''abs'' advantage is not that important anymore, also, bread cost 800k, before you mention its price

Also, check again sod rank and clan sod.

11 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

4. you mentioned that ks/ mech were OP at SW before their nerfs due to their tanking abillity. not sure if you are right, but RN your SS tanks like a KS, and deals better damage than him ( 1h weapon , slow animation of brandish ) and you tank around the same as him, can avoid hell zones and buff your team, SS RN is better in SW than pre nerf ks ever was.

Ks bradish is 198% and lightning sword is also fairly strong on SW, ks tank more, but, yes, i agree he needs to stay close to cast it, unlike pike. meaning that KS, shaman and PS are probably on the same power level on SW, with pike being arguable better, and ks arguable a bit weaker because of his melee range.

 

18 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

I do know that he has other things he can do, but defiantly not SW. You were the only biased 1 here.

 

I think we can stop right here, there's absolutely nothing we can discuss further.

i'll let this right here:

10 hours ago, TigerShark22 said:

you attack from 180 range, and the damage is crap with 1h.

 

10 hours ago, TigerShark22 said:

high AOE DPS ( not mage high, but high). 

1 hour ago, - D E A T H S T R O K E - said:

the difference of damage boost of tornado and phantom nail is 306% vs 326%, did you forgot that?

326/306 => 1,06, phantom nail damage boost is 6% better than tornado, on the other hand

9 hours ago, - D E A T H S T R O K E - said:

115+169/2 => 142

149+160/2 => 154

even if you consider average ATK, pike's formula is better than shaman's [130/str].

shaman gets 150/spirit, pike 130/str, meaning that pikes damage formua is 15% better than shaman's [150/130]

so 142+15% => ~163 base, with 1 hand.

163/154 => 1,06, meaning that pike with 1 hand has a 6% higher base damage, literally, they have the EXACTLY same average damage phantom nail vs tornado 1hand with the difference that tornado AoE is >>> phantom nail and PN animation is faster, something like 1 extra phantom nail every 10 sec.

 

see?

first you say that tornado with 1 hand is crap, but PN is a fantastic skill, even though both have fairly close DPS.

[DeadlyWarrior 688]

On 12/30/2021 at 6:03 AM, VacaGoiaba said:

why is ss so undervalued in the game? the majority of character sales on the forum are from ss , the character is so they forgot about him.

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by DeadlyWarrior

[MadTale 763]

4 minutes ago, DeadlyWarrior said:

People selling 142+24 Axe arround 8kc now, while 142+24 Phantom still 13-14kc.

and staff 142+24 25kc xD

 

if things were balanced all them would be costing same value. 

[DeadlyWarrior 688]

On 12/30/2021 at 6:03 AM, VacaGoiaba said:

why is ss so undervalued in the game? the majority of character sales on the forum are from ss , the character is so they forgot about him.

If SS is undervalued, what FS is then? People selling 142+24 Axe arround 8kc now, while 142+24 Phantom still 13-14kc. If you check the Top 100 Level Ranking, then the minimum Level of the Top 100 of SS, ranking nr. 100 is level 150. while for FS its lvl 146. FS is a dead class right now, only a handfull active Fighters in Server. 

But if you compare SS to Rangers, then yea its a dead class too. 

 

But to answer your question: the sellers are 95% business players, playing only to gain Coins (and the rest you can imagine by your self). Its easy to exp a SS from lvl 120 to 144. SS can tank good in the PVE Maps and kill good. Its also welcome in the CT3 Parties and DIQ.... 

 

[covidkilla 414]

5 minutes ago, DeadlyWarrior said:

If SS is undervalued, what FS is then? People selling 142+24 Axe arround 8kc now, while 142+24 Phantom still 13-14kc. If you check the Top 100 Level Ranking, then the minimum Level of the Top 100 of SS, ranking nr. 100 is level 150. while for FS its lvl 146. FS is a dead class right now, only a handfull active Fighters in Server. 

But if you compare SS to Rangers, then yea its a dead class too. 

 

But to answer your question: the sellers are 95% business players, playing only to gain Coins (and the rest you can imagine by your self). Its easy to exp a SS from lvl 120 to 144. SS can tank good in the PVE Maps and kill good. Its also welcome in the CT3 Parties and DIQ.... 

 

 

 

ph sells for 10kc