Brawler

[HollyShot 968]

On 4/11/2022 at 1:34 AM, Hulk said:

PVP: Brawler is a good in pvp, but there are better ones (PS KS FS).
PVE:  do not do it

About the patch:
BS reacted very badly to the new patch, the reduce damage critical was a very big nerf in several classes, but I believe that brawler affected a lot by its mechanics slow and totally dependent on critical.

 

BS needs 2 crits to kill some classes (with 29% crit this is very difficult), getting to activate effective retaliation is even more difficult.
I like the class, but I would say that Bs is a KS that tanks less haha.

 

I'm just BS because I really liked the mechanics of the class and I'm not going to surrender to the meta game, but if you want to compete, I recommend another class

+1 for reverse the nerf in pvp base critical dmg

it only benefited pikes.

[kenibok 1,059]

12 hours ago, Lev said:

BS is the class that suffers the most from the current meta, because its lower resistances, due to not using a shield, makes it more vulnerable to crowd control. Ice last forever hahaha
 

Shes very good at 1v1 scenario, but everyone here know that wars are made of many vs many, and she doenst have any advantage at it. Cage is easily avoided, otara challenge only works for her (not a party debuff) and if theres many enemies attacking, even with dmg reduction, she just cant tank that much because lower defense (again bcs no shield).
I agree that its hard to kill her in 1v1, because its hard for a single skill to have enough damage to overwhelm her eHP (effective health), but thats not the case when many hits at the same time (wars).
 

The high KD in SW was bcs of AoE. High SW scores bcs of AoE or isolated cases of good performance at PvP are exception, not the rule. U cant say that any class is OP because of one or two players.
 

BS needs a rework, she suffers the same problem as mgs, main skill only 1 hit (headcrusher). Why main skill doing only 1 hit is a problem?
Because theres 2 scenarios: too weak like mgs, death ray cant kill, or too strong, headcrusher giving alot of hit kills. Theres no mid term. Or its OP or just bad. 
Damage needs to be distributed to other skills and the main skill should be pummel, which needs a faster animation for that.

Another problem is the need to use a debuff to get increased atk rating, it makes her gameplay slower than others. It should be adressed on her rework too.

 

I mean no.. but also yes ?

The main reason people use shields is because of block, not def or "resistance", the def/abs given by shields is rather small, the real thing for Brawler to not use a shield because fists grant you just as much block as a shield with your main weapon, block a very good defensive trait and it works vs every class on the same way, unlike defense for example. On this same topic you have to consider brawler has damage reduction, which is specially beneficial on this patch, while also has basically the best HP formula, force belt, and normal melee defense. I'm not complaining about its defensive traits but brawler is not really vulnerable or "just can't tank that much" at all; unluckily this patch does make dmg reduction classes more tanky, but on the other hand it does affect brawler on basically all non-headcrusher skills lol.

 

I agree bs is kinda boring for wars and doesn't have a clear role, but I don't really know how this could be changed, maybe perfecting its cage or some twist in countershock. I do strongly disagree with Otara challenge working as a party buff/debuff, I mean... I don't even want to imagine how 73% +7 penetration would work for a pikeman or a ranger or actually anyone. Its already broken in my opinion to have a debuff lasting 60 seconds and having 5 seconds delay, you just need some click action to have a whole party debuffed and still have 30 seconds left on the first target. Brawler could have its final rate increased with an otara challenge adjustment in time and % (reduction) to not make her so dependent on it, and make it more dynamic vs specific classes

 

I also agree that bs damage should be distributed to other skills as main because headcrusher although its very slow its dmg is broken, just like suggested by others there's plenty of options to choose 2-3 hit skills, I do believe retaliation speed should be reviewed if such a change is made

 

12 hours ago, Lev said:

The high KD in SW was bcs of AoE. High SW scores bcs of AoE or isolated cases of good performance at PvP are exception, not the rule. U cant say that any class is OP because of one or two players.

 

Interesting, I wish I read this more often and not only to the class they play/like, I will just keep this phrase in "mind"

 

2 hours ago, HollyShot said:

+1 for reverse the nerf in pvp base critical dmg

it only benefited pikes.

yes +1, both measures were and are ridiculously unnecessary, they only imbalance because the classes that would get more accuracy are the exact same classes that have advantage on hit kill and critical, taking everyone else's power while keeping/boosting those is a huge (??????

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by kenibok

[Lev 323]

35 minutes ago, kenibok said:

 

I mean no.. but also yes ?

The main reason people use shields is because of block, not def or "resistance", the def/abs given by shields is rather small, the real thing for Brawler to not use a shield because fists grant you just as much block as a shield with your main weapon, block a very good defensive trait and it works vs every class on the same way, unlike defense for example. On this same topic you have to consider brawler has damage reduction, which is specially beneficial on this patch, while also has basically the best HP formula, force belt, and normal melee defense. I'm not complaining about its defensive traits but brawler is not really vulnerable or "just can't tank that much" at all; unluckily this patch does make dmg reduction classes more tanky, but on the other hand it does affect brawler on basically all non-headcrusher skills lol.

 

I agree bs is kinda boring for wars and doesn't have a clear role, but I don't really know how this could be changed, maybe perfecting its cage or some twist in countershock. I do strongly disagree with Otara challenge working as a party buff/debuff, I mean... I don't even want to imagine how 73% +7 penetration would work for a pikeman or a ranger or actually anyone. Its already broken in my opinion to have a debuff lasting 60 seconds and having 5 seconds delay, you just need some click action to have a whole party debuffed and still have 30 seconds left on the first target. Brawler could have its final rate increased with an otara challenge adjustment in time and % (reduction) to not make her so dependent on it, and make it more dynamic vs specific classes

 

I also agree that bs damage should be distributed to other skills as main because headcrusher although its very slow its dmg is broken, just like suggested by others there's plenty of options to choose 2-3 hit skills, I do believe retaliation speed should be reviewed if such a change is made

 

 

Interesting, I wish I read this more often and not only to the class they play/like, I will just keep this phrase in "mind"

 

both measures were and are ridiculously unnecessary, they only imbalance because the classes that would get more accuracy are the exact same classes that have advantage on hit kill and critical, taking everyone else's power while keeping/boosting those is a huge (??????

 

Defense is underated, it counters atk rating. Even in small amounts (like defense sheltom) u can notice the difference. But im not here to talk about what defense does hahaha

What im trying to say is, i agree BS is a good tanker, but mainly in 1v1,  but when alot of chars are trying to kill her, there are other classes that can do better. People call BS super tanker, but thats not true. I switched from BS to KS and the difference is q.uite big, even though BS has more dmg reduction.

About otara challenge, is an excellent skill but at the same time one of brawlers weaknesses, the cast is slow (u can die if wrong timing) and without that BS looks like a blind character, miss every hit all the time.  U need to cast in every target, it makes u lose alot of time, looks like a clunky character, thats why i changed class. For example if im going to try to kill an AS or a fast character with high mobility, by the time i use the skill, it already run out of range

Now Otara is 49% atk rat and 7% penetration. As i said before in other topics about BS, the best scenario for otara is split the skill, put atk rating on atk skills like any other melee and add low duration  + cooldown (like shaman inertia) in otara with only penetration debuff. Mb the bonus apply for party only to mb make her usefull in wars.

About headcrusher, they need to change it to pummel maybe, add some damage in others skills like rampage.
Ill say a real feedback from old BS player, if u nerf too much headcrusher, BS becomes useless. And to fix this nerfing HC dmg without an rework isnt the right way. The class is already dead, only one active BS in BC.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Lev

[TigerShark22 488]

4 hours ago, Lev said:

 Retaliation only works for a single skill animation and have cooldown. Dont talk like if it last forever, If u use Pummel, speed will work on all 3 hits, but critical damage only on the first one. 
* Last time i wasted time with a friend testing, we tried to make retaliation connect for 20 minutes and guess what, nothing. BS 160 vs PRS 154 without draxos and 140 +24.

BS have only one finisher, headcrusher, anything else except this skill, if u die, its ur fault for lack of knowledge. Comet fist u just need to move, its far from reliable finisher and anything else have no damage to be a finisher.

About stuns, yes, but the problem right now isnt stuns, thats the ice, too powerfull.

KS has less HP, less defense reduction and tank much more, except in 1v1 encounters.

If u read my last sentence, i just asked for a rework, mostly spreading dmg in more skills zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 
 

 

You literally complain that a class that excells in 1v1 and fine at SW isnt good in team fights.

 

Also what do you mean by ks as " Tanks more " ? 1v1? no, team fights? yes. yet again, hes a tanker, and he should be better at team fight than her ( hes a balanced all around mediocore ).

6 hours ago, Hulk said:

Say that about PS, it's GOOD in PVP/DG/SOD and probably the best melee in SS, the only disadvantage of ps is 1x1 (and it's not even that big a disadvantage)

 

brawler from the last patch has changed a lot, maybe you're traumatized by the old patch, but don't use the past patch as a base

 

PS: I know the topic is not about ps, but people who are not aware of the classes are giving stupid info.

 

About retaliation, not sure about what you are talking about, if there is a bug, tell the GM that there is a bug, but you only need a block to activate that skill, and after it, theres cd to activate it again.

When you do, if you hit+ crit, its a KO.  Its a finisher.

About other finishers, many finishers are like this. CS, DP, destroyer, SM.

 

Lastly, if you believe she needs a PVE buff, suggest it. At PVP she doesnt need a buff.

Edited April 14, 2022 by TigerShark22

[Hulk 332]

5 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

Lastly, if you believe she needs a PVE buff, suggest it. At PVP she doesnt need a buff.

BS needs a buff on PVE and a rework on PVP, BS dont need a buff, nobody here mentioned buff, u so traumatized that you think everything is a buff, your class is strong, BS won't be as strong as PS , u can sleep peacefully

[Lev 323]

12 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

You literally complain that a class that excells in 1v1 and fine at SW isnt good in team fights.

Dude, 1v1 and duel basically nobody cares.
Maybe what the class needs is to be good and useful in some real end game scenario, and the pvp end game isnt 1v1 or duel. The real pvp end game is wars and sw and right now BS have no role in both after the AoE nerf.
Nobody here, AGAIN, mentioned buff, i said my points about the class after being old BS player and what i suggested were just a rework to make her usefull in real end game content. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Lev

[Hulk 332]

6 minutes ago, Lev said:

Nobody here, AGAIN, mentioned buff

 can see bro? @TigerShark22

can sleep peacefully now,

PS will remain strong without even needing items 142 or relics, enjoy and go to the topics that uhave knowledge on post

 

I'm literally only BS on wt that is going Daily wars

every day there are less bs in the game, it's not because weak, it's just because has better choices

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Hulk

[DeadlyWarrior 688]

8 hours ago, Lev said:

 Retaliation only works for a single skill animation and have cooldown. Dont talk like if it last forever, If u use Pummel, speed will work on all 3 hits, but critical damage only on the first one. 
* Last time i wasted time with a friend testing, we tried to make retaliation connect for 20 minutes and guess what, nothing. BS 160 vs PRS 154 without draxos and 140 +24.

BS have only one finisher, headcrusher, anything else except this skill, if u die, its ur fault for lack of knowledge. Comet fist u just need to move, its far from reliable finisher and anything else have no damage to be a finisher.

About stuns, yes, but the problem right now isnt stuns, thats the ice, too powerfull.

KS has less HP, less defense reduction and tank much more, except in 1v1 encounters.

If u read my last sentence, i just asked for a rework, mostly spreading dmg in more skills zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 
 

 

Why you suspect other people 

by "why beeing hurt by other opinions?"? Try to be factual and not personal. 

 

About rework: that might be an option but need to be objective and talk about a balance that make sense. Some people just want an OP class again. I respect other options but if some people say Brawler is weak and need a Buff thats not an opinion, thats just wrong. Brawler is very strong in 1vs1 scenario. That doesnt mean that she is enjoyable in BC - thats also has to do with personal taste and what people like or not like. But has also something to do with the her mechanics and advantages/disadvantages of the class.

 

"No one cares about 1vs1/Duell"... 1vs1 also happens in BC/SW. Brawlers role in my Eyes is to kill Fighters, Mechs, Knights etc by using otara and/or cage. And here every Melee - will be disadvantaged against Brawler in 1vs1, especially if can get someone into cage. Pike is another thing. 

 

Also FS have it hard in Bigger Context, but if play Like Noob+Adrian as team with supoort and having Shaman/Priest in party, then it looks different. But i would like to see if they can also play like this if they would be lvl 158-160 same items... 

Edited April 14, 2022 by DeadlyWarrior

[- D E A T H S T R O K E - 1,760]

10 hours ago, kenibok said:

The main reason people use shields is because of block, not def or "resistance",

both defense and resistance are actually fairly strong on PvP, there are many elemental debuffs out there, ground pike being the prime example of busted, reducing it's duration by extra 12% is a lot.

And 1K defense is also a lot, the prime example was the Orb nerf, that shafted shaman from strongest class on pvp to meme for months.

[TigerShark22 488]

16 hours ago, Hulk said:

BS needs a buff on PVE and a rework on PVP, BS dont need a buff, nobody here mentioned buff, u so traumatized that you think everything is a buff, your class is strong, BS won't be as strong as PS , u can sleep peacefully

First, Im not a pike anymore.

2nd, You didn't understand at all what I was saying.

 

Also pike is crap and suck completely at SW, so what is the point there?

 

15 hours ago, Hulk said:

 can see bro? @TigerShark22

can sleep peacefully now,

PS will remain strong without even needing items 142 or relics, enjoy and go to the topics that uhave knowledge on post

 

I'm literally only BS on wt that is going Daily wars

every day there are less bs in the game, it's not because weak, it's just because has better choices

 

 

 

 

 

This is for you 2. BS characteristics contain no shield, high dmg reduction, 1v1/finishers skills, hp, nice brute force dmg, debuff for AR+penetration, and a block.

 

Her characteristics lead her to excell at 1v1, and be fine at SW, yet can never be good in team fights.

 

I didn't oppose a buff only. I did say that if she would be buffed, other melees will need a buff too ( even RN at overall BC balance, she owns melees ).

 

What I did say is that she doesn't need a rework. Her aspects are excelling at 1v1, being mediocorish at SW, yet being bad in team fights.

 

The GM role is to give us players different classes with different advantages and disadvantages. Its our role as player to pick what fits us most.

 

For example you guys believe that fs/ps fit you the most, then go for it. If you dont like them, and lets say you like female classes, ass/prs/as/ata, all of them are good at the aspects you guys want to emphasize ( team fights/SW ).

 

Just BS role should be as is. Whoever like it and likes the class can be a BS. Whoever doesn't, should pick a class he likes for it's abillities/personal liking taste /combination of both.

 

If she was to be buffed /reworked at team fights, this class will deserve a nerf at 1v1, cause again, cant have it all, and it will decrease the player's option of class strenghes ( atm shes the only class whos good at both 1v1 and SW at her tier).

That's why I oppose it. You guys have options, just pick something.

 

.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by TigerShark22

[covidkilla 414]

20 hours ago, kenibok said:

 

I mean no.. but also yes ?

The main reason people use shields is because of block, not def or "resistance", the def/abs given by shields is rather small, the real thing for Brawler to not use a shield because fists grant you just as much block as a shield with your main weapon, block a very good defensive trait and it works vs every class on the same way, unlike defense for example. On this same topic you have to consider brawler has damage reduction, which is specially beneficial on this patch, while also has basically the best HP formula, force belt, and normal melee defense. I'm not complaining about its defensive traits but brawler is not really vulnerable or "just can't tank that much" at all; unluckily this patch does make dmg reduction classes more tanky, but on the other hand it does affect brawler on basically all non-headcrusher skills lol.

 

I agree bs is kinda boring for wars and doesn't have a clear role, but I don't really know how this could be changed, maybe perfecting its cage or some twist in countershock. I do strongly disagree with Otara challenge working as a party buff/debuff, I mean... I don't even want to imagine how 73% +7 penetration would work for a pikeman or a ranger or actually anyone. Its already broken in my opinion to have a debuff lasting 60 seconds and having 5 seconds delay, you just need some click action to have a whole party debuffed and still have 30 seconds left on the first target. Brawler could have its final rate increased with an otara challenge adjustment in time and % (reduction) to not make her so dependent on it, and make it more dynamic vs specific classes

 

I also agree that bs damage should be distributed to other skills as main because headcrusher although its very slow its dmg is broken, just like suggested by others there's plenty of options to choose 2-3 hit skills, I do believe retaliation speed should be reviewed if such a change is made

 

 

Interesting, I wish I read this more often and not only to the class they play/like, I will just keep this phrase in "mind"

 

yes +1, both measures were and are ridiculously unnecessary, they only imbalance because the classes that would get more accuracy are the exact same classes that have advantage on hit kill and critical, taking everyone else's power while keeping/boosting those is a huge (??????

 

 

 

 

+1  Great feedback 

[redsky272 731]

On 4/12/2022 at 7:04 PM, covidkilla said:

 

 

 

Brawlers are slow , in team fights people are running around a lot. So brawlers have to normally chase opponents ..That type of gameplay isn't the best for brawlers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope Gm would bring back relatiation speed buff to the whole 5s and penetration to 8 again.

 

or buff skill speed. I don’t see Bs for a while.