Can you strengthen the mechanical AOE capability?

[pp4000 5]

As is well known, the attack buff and defense buff of mechanics cannot be combined, and at the same time, individual output skills are used, resulting in physical mechanics not being very useful.

Recently, I signed a dungeon with a friend from the trade union, using claw and shield machinery to attack buffs as a remote AOE character. The grenade skill used, attack range, and range were playe good, but only the main target received 2 damage levels and the secondary targets received 1 damage level, which was a bit disappointing ：）

 

Can GM consider strengthening the grenade skill to achieve a 2-level damage for all targets, so that when placing dungeons, it can achieve a level of performance similar to that of the Aoe and the Sacrifice without strengthening the individual attack skill (which will affect the PVP).

Thank you!

[cwing 1]

• As an MS fanatic，

•  

• Hoping to take care of ms。

Edited July 22, 2023 by cwing

[Wushi 219]

+1

 

[Mumu 41]

+1

[Overlady 5,233]

Both skills are balanced around it, if you want a higher AoE damage you should use Spark, but the damage to the main target will be lower.

 

Best,

Overlady

[pp4000 5]

5 hours ago, Overlady said:

Both skills are balanced around it, if you want a higher AoE damage you should use Spark, but the damage to the main target will be lower.

 

Best,

Overlady

If a machine wants to output, it does not have sufficient defensive ability. Sparks do not have the same distance and casting speed as hand grenades. Overall, hand grenades are the best choice for AOE output of machines, and many machine players use hand grenades as their main means of AOE output.

The mechanical single unit melee has already collapsed, which can be explained as a consideration for PVP, and it cannot simultaneously possess powerful melee single unit output and defense skills.

However, increasing the remote AOE output capability to become a second tier output will not affect the balance of PVP, but rather enhance the circulation of some junk equipment, such as claws and hammers.

I say so much because the machine has no other gameplay besides being an MT, and agile machines only have remote monomers.

 

Machinery is too weak except for MT.

[Overlady 5,233]

On 7/22/2023 at 4:58 AM, pp4000 said:

If a machine wants to output, it does not have sufficient defensive ability. Sparks do not have the same distance and casting speed as hand grenades. Overall, hand grenades are the best choice for AOE output of machines, and many machine players use hand grenades as their main means of AOE output.

The mechanical single unit melee has already collapsed, which can be explained as a consideration for PVP, and it cannot simultaneously possess powerful melee single unit output and defense skills.

However, increasing the remote AOE output capability to become a second tier output will not affect the balance of PVP, but rather enhance the circulation of some junk equipment, such as claws and hammers.

I say so much because the machine has no other gameplay besides being an MT, and agile machines only have remote monomers.

 

Machinery is too weak except for MT.

I don't get it 🤔

 

Best,

Overlady

[erickloro 373]

@Overlady I hope that you staff look more closely at this class, it has a very large complexity to offer, but today it is limited to auto mech or tank mule in wartale.

is not fair....
Is worth saying that I am not asking for more damage, or that mech becomes the king of pvp, im asking for his tank side became useful in the SW BC, and your power side became useful in a party in the dungeons and another contents pve, not as a secondary account.

please

[pp4000 5]

@Overlady

 

This should have been replied to by another editor under my post

 

If you want to persuade us mechanical players, should you also elaborate on your balance strategy? Instead of cutting PVP and PVE all at once

 

Whether you can get it or not, the weakness of mechanical PVE is a fact

 

 

On 7/2/2023 at 12:16 AM, GAME--[中文攻略]--GUIDE said:

你這個很多年了，看得懂英文的話關注官網建議版，一直都有機械打怪玩家反應你這個。

 

1.機械進戰1打1是屬於打架用，到現在也還是如此。
2.機械進戰打全體是屬於低等升等到140用，就那兩招，一招是電球，另一招是四轉的刺兩刀的範圍技。
3.機械遠攻1打1，就是敏機，拿弓的，是用在高等圖升等用。
4.機械點生命，不點力量，就是純坦，用在最高等地圖當坦，後面再放一隻祭司腳本點血，因為祭司預算裝備坦不了最高等圖，相同價格的裝備之下機械可以。

 

所以你說的，為什麼機械防禦技能和攻擊技能不能疊加，因為以打架來講，機械的高擋格已經讓他可以很強，如果開攻擊技能後還能再疊加防禦技能，會造成有傷害又很坦，當然目前環境打架機械偏弱，因為兩年前有個改版調整命中，造成機械容易吃到傷害，以前機械被一堆人打還能狂爪別人，爪個爆擊對方就要死不活了，自己還坦一堆人的傷害，根本戰神。
以打怪來講，我是覺得機械進戰1打1刷怪很慢，所以改強(改成可以疊加)是沒差。其實某次技能平衡改版已經改過，我記得也是建議版玩家反應去改的，原本1轉的1技(extreme shield)跟攻擊(maximize)是沒有疊加的，現在有對吧？我現在沒活躍懶得上線確認，兩三年前某次改版改的。

 

遊俠強只強在於你只玩一隻的情況下，因為他甚麼都有，輸出、坦度、範圍、單體、樣樣都有，能打架能打怪，但就是個全能角色，樣樣都行沒一個精通，我會這樣說：當你練起來很多隻，會多開遊戲窗口一次操作兩三隻去打怪，你根本不會優先選遊俠，就算有遊俠，也是把他放旁邊，拿其它隻去操作。
打個比方，你只玩一隻，你會拿遊俠去高等圖刷怪，當你有幾隻遠程角加上坦的時候，你會拿兩隻遠程角(敏機、女弓、法師等)搭配一隻坦(坦祭司、坦機械、坦遊俠)，去刷怪。
坦遊俠沒什麼人會這樣用，148以下都是拿坦祭司，148以上看你要拿1隻坦祭司(預算坦要經常轉過去看或是更貴造價)，或是1隻坦機械搭配補血祭司站後面，這兩種選一長時間去刷。
這時候遊俠是坐板凳的，有也是丟旁邊吸經驗。
遊俠是全能角，一般玩家都是建議起手就是遊俠(或是祭司也是不錯)。
當你練很多隻後，不管你是砸錢還是慢慢農，還是老玩家開服玩到現在一堆角色，加上操作上技術許可多開遊戲窗口去操作，你絕對絕對不會去把遊俠當第一。薩滿光是+1攻速就已經比遊俠在多開打怪的時候好用太多，更不用說祭司的補助，法師的增魔增體力(source)再加上附魔武器(enchant)額外加傷害。
以前代練有幾個還拿魔槍放旁邊當小號給閃避buff、小號女弓給攻擊/命中buff，什麼職業都有，就是沒有遊俠，呵呵呵。遊俠只有給隊伍不死族傷害，而且要在隊伍裡。以上說的祭司、法師、魔槍、女弓給buff都不用在隊伍，除了薩滿，但是+1攻速刷怪是天差地別(再加上sod/攻城的buff疊加後刷怪會更快)。

 

基本上，遊俠最多人玩，因為不需要以上這些考慮，對一般玩家來講，遊俠就是個神角色，也能說是個福利角色。對於代練、代打、農夫、多開玩家等，其它職業比遊俠更重要。
刷王也是一樣的，吃香的是祭司、女弓手。你用遊俠刷王也是用1轉的中遠程技能去刷王，唯一的好處是離王近一點，能跑去撿錢。

 

機械其實比遊俠更萬用，因為能轉全坦、能轉遠程1打1、能電球刷經驗圖、也能打架。
機械是沒錢的回歸新手最強的升等的角色，因為裝備需求最低(也就是最便宜)，就能刷105經驗圖，到120->124->128，一直到132經驗圖，都是合成盔甲盾牌/爪，就能刷，而且是同等級刷同等級的經驗圖，不是高個三五等再去刷。
法師/祭司/薩滿刷經驗圖，除了祭司有坦不死族能便宜裝備刷120->128外，都需要狂喝水要不然裝備需求要更高(或是回去低等圖刷，就是不能同等級刷)，而且祭司到132經驗圖後根本沒辦法刷(以132合成裝備祭司來講)，直到更高等或是鍛造+20裝備才能輕鬆刷。
機械是唯一的職業可以一路合成裝備，到132等就能刷132經驗圖。而且都是1帶5隻。當然有錢後，都換成用祭司解經驗圖，因為冰隕石範圍廣輕鬆刷，所以機械+祭司對新手來講是最強大的組合體(其實遊俠+祭司也可以)。
反觀遊俠也行，但是範圍技能就是閃電，有冷卻，坦度就是比機械低一點點。

 

這是我個人見解，遊俠萬用全能，機械並不全能，但是機械可以專精。
而多開的玩家不見得一定有隻遊俠，但是一定有隻坦，坦就是機械或是祭司。
另外對於回鍋的低等新手，機械電球是最便宜的升等管道。
再來到大後期，你不會想用近戰刷怪，都是拿遠程角站後面刷，因為刷長時間，你不會想要用技能或是喝水，只想要一鍵點怪直到結束，這時候敏機/女弓/法師比遊俠需求更高。
所以..其實機械更親兒子，我個人這麼多年刷怪都沒再用遊俠，以前有搞過遊俠站前面輸出，弓手/法師站後面也輸出，變成輸出再加輸出更高，怪重生就死，但是累死要一直看遊俠，還不如上吊祭司永遠不用看。像我個人從十年前就必備一隻坦機械，遊俠倒是隨便。

 

至於市場流通問題，機械玩家比遊俠少是事實，看等級排名就知道，不流通問題還是爪/槌只能機械用，反觀劍：機械、鬥士、遊俠都能用，而且鬥士都跑去用劍了，所以除了機械玩家少以外，也是因為機械裝備只能機械用。不過中低階裝備來講，祭司、機械、法師、遊俠、這四個職業裝備流通性最高，另外現在有蘑菇、蜜蜂、海底，多開的會選擇機械當坦跟進去副本。

 

有感而發，建議你翻英文打在建議版，GM看這裡也看不懂，頂多看有沒有遵守版規罷了。
 

 

53 minutes ago, erickloro said:

@Overlady I hope that you staff look more closely at this class, it has a very large complexity to offer, but today it is limited to auto mech or tank mule in wartale.

is not fair....
Is worth saying that I am not asking for more damage, or that mech becomes the king of pvp, im asking for his tank side became useful in the SW BC, and your power side became useful in a party in the dungeons and another contents pve, not as a secondary account.

please

Someone shares my view that mechanical PVE is weak

[RoadRoller 1]

On 7/22/2023 at 7:12 AM, pp4000 said:

As is well known, the attack buff and defense buff of mechanics cannot be combined, and at the same time, individual output skills are used, resulting in physical mechanics not being very useful.

Recently, I signed a dungeon with a friend from the trade union, using claw and shield machinery to attack buffs as a remote AOE character. The grenade skill used, attack range, and range were playe good, but only the main target received 2 damage levels and the secondary targets received 1 damage level, which was a bit disappointing ：）

 

Can GM consider strengthening the grenade skill to achieve a 2-level damage for all targets, so that when placing dungeons, it can achieve a level of performance similar to that of the Aoe and the Sacrifice without strengthening the individual attack skill (which will affect the PVP).

Thank you!

The Mech modification issue is something I think might happen in the future. Me and my friend both play mech and we understand the basic skills of mech. Mech is a versatile character because it can be built in many different directions. You can't be strong in defense and strong in damage at the same time. That is completely impossible. Editing it will be purely level based, it will affect all servers and other characters. If bomb x2 now, I think it will be a huge obsession. It used to only have x1 damage but has been changed to x2 for selected monters.
       The use of "bomb, impus and spark" each person has a different way of playing. Sometimes it doesn't need it to be too effective, but sometimes it's just because the skill is too familiar with the time playing Mech. It is true that the mech has changed, but it is still a good choice that others cannot ignore.
    Actually, their basic passive is not PVP, nor dame as big as FS,PS, AS.. It's just as neutral as Magician "OLD season 2002" they both have good defense, can't PVP but are also very hard to kill, still attracting notable attention because of their own skill level up support and tanker support. The remarkable strength of the mech is the tanker. They are represented by block, abs-def, counter damage and are supported by lightning skills that run around the body. These skills have clearly demonstrated the bravery of the "genuine TANKER" guy. Many players really want their character to be their own way, but no, many mech players have raised it because it builds dame, it's good Pvp... but really to me, it's someone who can stand alone and stand tall like a warrior when facing monsters alone without the support of another character.
       The article is too long, so here I will only analyze a few small things from my experience with Mech. I think x2 for bomb won't be possible. It's too strong.

[pp4000 5]

57 minutes ago, RoadRoller said:

The Mech modification issue is something I think might happen in the future. Me and my friend both play mech and we understand the basic skills of mech. Mech is a versatile character because it can be built in many different directions. You can't be strong in defense and strong in damage at the same time. That is completely impossible. Editing it will be purely level based, it will affect all servers and other characters. If bomb x2 now, I think it will be a huge obsession. It used to only have x1 damage but has been changed to x2 for selected monters.
       The use of "bomb, impus and spark" each person has a different way of playing. Sometimes it doesn't need it to be too effective, but sometimes it's just because the skill is too familiar with the time playing Mech. It is true that the mech has changed, but it is still a good choice that others cannot ignore.
    Actually, their basic passive is not PVP, nor dame as big as FS,PS, AS.. It's just as neutral as Magician "OLD season 2002" they both have good defense, can't PVP but are also very hard to kill, still attracting notable attention because of their own skill level up support and tanker support. The remarkable strength of the mech is the tanker. They are represented by block, abs-def, counter damage and are supported by lightning skills that run around the body. These skills have clearly demonstrated the bravery of the "genuine TANKER" guy. Many players really want their character to be their own way, but no, many mech players have raised it because it builds dame, it's good Pvp... but really to me, it's someone who can stand alone and stand tall like a warrior when facing monsters alone without the support of another character.
       The article is too long, so here I will only analyze a few small things from my experience with Mech. I think x2 for bomb won't be possible. It's too strong.

So machines should face the PVE environment alone. Many people like the skills and coolness of machines and only play one character, but they also want to be able to solo monsters on their own.

Of course, machines can SOLO monsters, but compared to other professions, they are too slow. Should all machines that want to become DPS play agile machines without AOE skills

In addition, hand grenades are only more powerful when facing mutated and mechanical monsters.

[Saboss 59]

What I don´t see any sense is having MS with bow. A MS with bow hits fast and does a good damage (only one mob at a time), but almost tanks less than an archer.

 

I think putting MS to use bow ended the class as a melee. Those skills to use with bow should be replaced by skills to use like melee, better skills to use in area for example. or better skill for 1vs1 PVE.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Saboss

[cwing 1]

 I think x2 for bomb add fun  XD

[exyzus 64]

I play a power mech myself and here's my take on the mech issue. Mechs are strong early game (up to 14x) because they can tank on their own in most of the exp maps and can finish quests of their own level solo. Sparks aren't the greatest AOE skill but it's sufficient and can kill at a decent speed. I'm making this comparison against ASS, PRS and MGS, all of which I leveled myself to 13x. Mech is very enjoyable and comfortable at exp maps while the other classes struggle to survive unless you have high age gears. 

 

At beecave and sunken mech are still important part of the party, especially if the overall party level is low. For example, a party with 135ish mgs/prs/ss/ks can't tank beecave without a mech. A party with 143ish ks/fs/bs can't tank sunken either. Mechs are absolutely needed in these parties. At these parties, we mechs need to position ourselves correctly. We are not killers, there's no way in hell a mech can out damage the killers with sparks. We are there to tank for the group so the killers can do damage. If you are good at this, people will always welcome you in their parties, even if there's already another mech in the party. There are 11 classes in Wartale and there's 6 players in a party, so mechs are in theory should be in higher demand compare to the killers. I can't speak for LC because I haven't been, but having a tanker in a party can't hurt. It may slow down the killing by a little but it will make the whole party experience much more enjoyable. 

 

Now, let's talk about the real issue I see. Mech is lacking 1v1 ability. Impulse and GS are both crap compare the 1v1 skills from other melee classes. The only high damage t5 skill have high CD. This is very obvious when I do dog tag in SS or SL quests. Mechs simply can't kill fast enough 1v1. I think the best way to improve this is to make ms t5 skill do not do area damage but have lower cool down. 

 

To summarize, I think MS is fine the way it is in parties and as a tank/damage taker, it needs better 1v1 skill and it needs compulsion to have some what mob control ability. 

[pp4000 5]

On 7/25/2023 at 10:19 PM, exyzus said:

I play a power mech myself and here's my take on the mech issue. Mechs are strong early game (up to 14x) because they can tank on their own in most of the exp maps and can finish quests of their own level solo. Sparks aren't the greatest AOE skill but it's sufficient and can kill at a decent speed. I'm making this comparison against ASS, PRS and MGS, all of which I leveled myself to 13x. Mech is very enjoyable and comfortable at exp maps while the other classes struggle to survive unless you have high age gears. 

 

At beecave and sunken mech are still important part of the party, especially if the overall party level is low. For example, a party with 135ish mgs/prs/ss/ks can't tank beecave without a mech. A party with 143ish ks/fs/bs can't tank sunken either. Mechs are absolutely needed in these parties. At these parties, we mechs need to position ourselves correctly. We are not killers, there's no way in hell a mech can out damage the killers with sparks. We are there to tank for the group so the killers can do damage. If you are good at this, people will always welcome you in their parties, even if there's already another mech in the party. There are 11 classes in Wartale and there's 6 players in a party, so mechs are in theory should be in higher demand compare to the killers. I can't speak for LC because I haven't been, but having a tanker in a party can't hurt. It may slow down the killing by a little but it will make the whole party experience much more enjoyable. 

 

Now, let's talk about the real issue I see. Mech is lacking 1v1 ability. Impulse and GS are both crap compare the 1v1 skills from other melee classes. The only high damage t5 skill have high CD. This is very obvious when I do dog tag in SS or SL quests. Mechs simply can't kill fast enough 1v1. I think the best way to improve this is to make ms t5 skill do not do area damage but have lower cool down. 

 

To summarize, I think MS is fine the way it is in parties and as a tank/damage taker, it needs better 1v1 skill and it needs compulsion to have some what mob control ability. 

 

I mentioned in my previous post that it is necessary to enhance the 1V1 capability of the machinery, but there are other versions that have replied that it will affect the PVP balance of the machinery. Therefore, I can only compromise on this. I hope to strengthen the remote AOE capability of the machinery, so that the power machinery can have a chance to appear in the dungeon. I believe this requirement is not excessive, and it does not affect the PVP balance, because grenades do not increase hit.