Delete Mech?

[TigerShark22 488]

13 hours ago, Equester said:

Your statements are not based on data, just on your personal opinions about some things. Furthermore, you are the profile that suggested reworking helions without the slightest need other than considering class design or game mechanics, probably because you want to use it as bug abuse in DG. And then when your opinion is not accepted, you resort to personal attacks and belittling of others. 

 

SS is not faster than FS. In terms of animation they are very close, in terms of 1v1 damage, the FS is top 1 in comparison videos between classes and the SS is not even in the top 5. In fact it is a slow 1v1 killer. 

 

A FS 16x fully equipped on a DG, with PRS support and other buffs is capable of doing so without much difficulty. Eventually being "caught" is part of the game and all classes are subject to it. It sounds like you want your character to be immortal. 

 

There has never been a period of time "for years" where KS was considered terrible. This is just a daydream on your part. 

 

When I say that the KS tanks better than the mech, I'm referring to its ability to be a tanker without giving up killing. Furthermore, another daydream on your part when you say that only a mech could tank LC on hard, which is not true. There are many LC PTs that go hard and they don't have a mech fulfilling this role. Generally, the person doing it is a high level K9 with good equipment.

 

SS is not superior to KS overall, much less "by far". More daydreaming on your part. The best overall class, supported by data, is KS. He is the third fastest killer in EB and the first best tanker considering those who don't give up killing like the mech. Ks is the class with the largest number of players and the most disputed ranking. He is capable of playing the role of tanker and killer in all DGS, in addition to being good in all gameplays. the SS is one of the best classes, in fact, but overall none surpasses the KS and the data from its performance on solo maps are superior to those of the Shamam, its versatility in roles such as killer and tanker in dungeons and the PVP scores in SW, in addition to the class level ranking, supports this statement. Its not a matter of opinion! If you think it is, so you are wrong! There is no "opinions" against data! 

Furthermore, you have your own selfish interests in what you think and want to be done. You are not interested in real balance, because you are  misinformed and biased.

I literally stated that I played all of those classes. My statements there are purely data based. Want an example?

FS: Can do 10 ACs in 12.3 secs in average with 1h, 11.5 secs with 2h.

SS: Can do 10 scratched in 10.25 secs

ASS: Does 10 spamable skills in 10 secs.

Data of no crown/ outside buffs.

 

Its funny that you are telling me that you know something. You dont. You are the guys of: " I feel ". Did the SS tried using PD+ scratched effectively/ when the video was taken? I can assure you, SS got a huge buff, and its a completely different class. And he was good even before that.

About the FS part: FS 160, full 144+24 DNT, drax, tulla relic, +45 gems, can defiantly get cought, even with a PRS ( Even if the PRS keeps regening him, when using 2h axe, he can die if not careful, and can't use the vortex with 2h if he's the main tanker effictively. In most cases, he has to be extra careful and still can get cought).

Even KS might have to stop his LS with 2h weapon ( 1h is  relatively safe for them though ).

 

About LC hard mode- I guess stuffs changed with 148 gears being out, and 17x +full relics+ +60 gems. Yet in PvE you don't count : " Can do " about what 17x  with those gears can do.

Most of this game are 160 or bellow. Only at PvP- you count 160~165 as balance. For PvE- you coun't generally, at every lvl. When highest lvl player was Karma, at 171, some players counnted Karma, as what defines FS's abillities in PvP. And he's not an example, when others were 155~165.

 

 

 SS is superior to KS, in almost every aspect of the game. Fun fact: SS can solo pretty well too, try using soccer head+kite for example, if your SS can't handle the mobs. Just 1 example out of many. He is indeed superior to KS, especially in PvP, and in almost every PvE case. That's not :" I think so ", that's :" I know so, and done it, and confirmed it myself ".

 

 

Now about rankings: Here are the key diffrences between SS and KS:

1. SS is a relatively new class.  Means many old players just stick to their KS.

2. SS was what you were saying before his major buff. After his major buff, the number of 160+ SS's more than doubled. KS's number however just increased regulary, as the game goes on, more people hit higher lvl.

3. There is a factor of nostalgy and likeabillity: KS has that, and SS will never have that. There are many players who feel that, especially to KS FS PS ( Those 3 were the most popular classes). Can't deny that.

4. Before SS came out, KS was the class you would pick to solo. Mage still didn't get the rework of % skills, means if you wanted a class that could solo well, and be versatile, you would go KS, cause SS didn't exist, and PRS/MGS were suck.

It was also the most popular class for some time for DIQ, and only due to a bug ( LS was bugged, and ignored the mob's abs).  Yet the number of KS was so high for years, and it also leads to players attaching to it.  That means through the game History, KS was always 1 of the most popular classes. Even when it was rangertale, in around 2020~2021, it was still the 2nd most popular class, even when in SS he wasn't accepted to parties, and everyone were rangers+tank. Btw the most popular class by than was mech. MS was picked over KS for 2 reasons:

1. His PvE is better, 1v1 DPS output was all that mattered in that era. Since even SL era at 2017, MS+AS  were the most popular classes, killing stuffs quickly with their bows.

2. His PvP was by far better. Even after all the nerfs he ate, he's still the better class to 1v1 with nowdays.

 

That leads us to the topic: mech being the least popular class RN, despite being the most popular 4 years ago: Mech was so popular back then, and now it's not. Its because the game evolved, and mech didn't. Auto mech needs to be nerfed, and the AOE of power mech should be buffed. Power mech should kill as much as KS, yet his catch is: he can go pure tanker and outdo KS/ go auto MS and play ranger to get PvE spots melee can't. While paying his price in tankyness when power mech. Should ofc balance 1h and 2h, when 1h MS should kill faster than 1h KS ofc, and 2h MS should be around 2h KS.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2024 by TigerShark22

[Equester 295]

1 hour ago, TigerShark22 said:

I literally stated that I played all of those classes. My statements there are purely data based. Want an example?

FS: Can do 10 ACs in 12.3 secs in average with 1h, 11.5 secs with 2h.

SS: Can do 10 scratched in 10.25 secs

ASS: Does 10 spamable skills in 10 secs.

Data of no crown/ outside buffs.

 

The time of execution of an animation is not the same as DPS or the the same as final result. FS is the top 1 DPS while SS is not even in top 5. The DPS  is the sum of execution speed, total damage, including critical and white damage and the ability to land more or less the hits you execute in a period of time and not merely in seconds of execution. Also, it must include all main skills and not a poor comparision with 1 skill of each class. Therefore, you are misinformed.

 

You also stated an untruth when you said that MGS's PVE is the best. The MGS can only fully realize its potential if it has the support of a tanking class to freely attack a large number of MOBS. If put in a 1v1 condition on a map like EB, he would barely be able to use the staff. If you are placed in a place with many mobs, so that you can tank, you will not be able to use a staff and when using a bubble, your mana will be drained and you will find yourself in a very difficult situation to execute skills. The best PVE in the game, depending on your own skills, is KS. Therefore, you are misinformed.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, TigerShark22 said:

 

 

Its funny that you are telling me that you know something. You dont. You are the guys of: " I feel ". Did the SS tried using PD+ scratched effectively/ when the video was taken? I can assure you, SS got a huge buff, and its a completely different class. And he was good even before that.

About the FS part: FS 160, full 144+24 DNT, drax, tulla relic, +45 gems, can defiantly get cought, even with a PRS ( Even if the PRS keeps regening him, when using 2h axe, he can die if not careful, and can't use the vortex with 2h if he's the main tanker effictively. In most cases, he has to be extra careful and still can get cought).

Even KS might have to stop his LS with 2h weapon ( 1h is  relatively safe for them though ).

 

 

The videos were made with 16x classes, equipped with items from the same line, the same age, therefore, level classes and similar items and with the correct execution of the skills of all classes compared. All are avaiable on youtube. Although there may be a small variation depending on one player to another, the result, mathematically speaking, is valuable because it is an approximation of reality based on data and tests and not mere opinion, like yours.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, TigerShark22 said:

About LC hard mode- I guess stuffs changed with 148 gears being out, and 17x +full relics+ +60 gems. Yet in PvE you don't count : " Can do " about what 17x  with those gears can do.

Most of this game are 160 or bellow. Only at PvP- you count 160~165 as balance. For PvE- you coun't generally, at every lvl. When highest lvl player was Karma, at 171, some players counnted Karma, as what defines FS's abillities in PvP. And he's not an example, when others were 155~165.

 

If you guess, you dont know. period!

 

1 hour ago, TigerShark22 said:

 

 SS is superior to KS, in almost every aspect of the game. Fun fact: SS can solo pretty well too, try using soccer head+kite for example, if your SS can't handle the mobs. Just 1 example out of many. He is indeed superior to KS, especially in PvP, and in almost every PvE case. That's not :" I think so ", that's :" I know so, and done it, and confirmed it myself ".

 

SS is not superior just because you are saying it is or that you want. If KS is the best tanker in EB, also the third best killer, while SS is not even top 5, if the KS has the most competitive ranking and the majority of plaayers,  if the KS is capable of characteristics such as tanking and killer, including better 1v1 skills and as good as the SS in AOE, so the KS overal is better than the SS althoug, as i told before, SS is also one of the best!  Furthermore, your statement that SS is better than KS is based on your personal impression and not on data. SW's data shows that both are excellent, but KS's pvp score tends to be higher than that achieved by SS. In the SW two weeks ago, for example, a ks 156 was able to achieve 66 kills and 0 deaths, having a streak of 66. No SS 15x came close to a result like that. Currently, the KS score is once again higher than the SS score. Both classes are very good and they hold the top 4 players on the server, although, if compared individually by level, the KS ranking has 5 players 17x, while the SS ranks have 3 players. The KS top 10 cutoff level is 167, while the SS cutoff level is 165. All the data points in a direction contrary to your opinion. They confirm that overall the KS is the best class and the SS is one of the best, but there is no scenario such as "SS is much better than ks bla bla bla" as you said. 

 

1 hour ago, TigerShark22 said:

 

Now about rankings: Here are the key diffrences between SS and KS:

1. SS is a relatively new class.  Means many old players just stick to their KS.

2. SS was what you were saying before his major buff. After his major buff, the number of 160+ SS's more than doubled. KS's number however just increased regulary, as the game goes on, more people hit higher lvl.

3. There is a factor of nostalgy and likeabillity: KS has that, and SS will never have that. There are many players who feel that, especially to KS FS PS ( Those 3 were the most popular classes). Can't deny that.

4. Before SS came out, KS was the class you would pick to solo. Mage still didn't get the rework of % skills, means if you wanted a class that could solo well, and be versatile, you would go KS, cause SS didn't exist, and PRS/MGS were suck.

It was also the most popular class for some time for DIQ, and only due to a bug ( LS was bugged, and ignored the mob's abs).  Yet the number of KS was so high for years, and it also leads to players attaching to it.  That means through the game History, KS was always 1 of the most popular classes. Even when it was rangertale, in around 2020~2021, it was still the 2nd most popular class, even when in SS he wasn't accepted to parties, and everyone were rangers+tank. Btw the most popular class by than was mech. MS was picked over KS for 2 reasons:

1. His PvE is better, 1v1 DPS output was all that mattered in that era. Since even SL era at 2017, MS+AS  were the most popular classes, killing stuffs quickly with their bows.

2. His PvP was by far better. Even after all the nerfs he ate, he's still the better class to 1v1 with nowdays.

 

The argument that SS is a relatively new class is fallacious, because MS is a very old class and even so, the SS rank is much higher than the MS rank. The SS Ranking is even higher than that of PS and FS, which are also old classes. So this shows that the time of the classes does not directly influence the number of players in the ranking, but rather its current cost-benefit and the balance of the classes. If your argument were true, MS, PS and FS should have their rankings with more players, individually compared, than SS and this is not true. Therefore, you keep saying meaningless things because you want to pull the string on your side.

 

The nostalgy factor you refer to is completely subjective and cannot be measured. Furthermore, it is a continuation of the first fallacious argument, because if nostalgia were a determining factor, MS, PS and FS would have ranks with more players and higher cut-off lines than SS and this is not true. These are just thoughts in your head to try to support your opinion, which is completely subjective and individual. You cannot measure nostalgy and you dont know how nostalgy works for each player, since you are talking about feelings and players ha different feeling about the game and different feelings about the classes. 

 

And yes, there was a time when MECHS dominated the game, because in fact, as you said, they were better in PVE, especially with the presence of the Auto Mech and they were also better in PVP, which is why they were heavily nerfed to The point that the nerf had the effect of a punishment with tones of revenge, which made it, today, a dead class!

 

 

Finally, it doesn't make any sense for you to argue that the FS needs more damage or speed, which are its strong points, when it has the best DPS and is one of the meta classes for PVP. What FS needs is NOT TO BE NERFED, because there are many players who will try, in every way, to take down FS because it is really strong. But it must be strong because this is the design and purpose of this class. The ones who should be nerfed, for the good of the game, are Brawler, ATA and KS. Brawler in its offensive potential, because it kills a lot more than it should and no one disputes that,  especially because it is easy to observe the results of matches between BS against other classes, where it easily wins the vast majority of the time,  ATA because she is tanking a lot, but is also capable to hit kill and stay stand in body to body combats against FS, PS, ASS, MS and KS, and the KS in its capacity defensiveness that is exaggerated making him almost imkortal if you put good gear + relics.  FS must be maintained like this. Likewise, melees should be better able to survive in dungeons to use their area skills and magic classes should not be giving HK as they are. In this sense, the PVP damage of classes like SS, MGS and PRS should be reduced due to their ability to scale damage with buffs and collective strength. I argue that magical classes cannot individually be able to win a confrontation against the Tempskrons, which are the classes that have their individual capabilities highlighted. In this sense, in 1v1 duels the advantage would be of tempskrons and in SW or in group PVP, the strength of morions would stand out due to their buffs, ranges, debuffs and ability to control others, which are skills that do not exist in ricarten's classes. Today, support classes are killing better in pvp then assassins classes.  This imbalance is the reason for the high concentration of players in magic classes and KS, while melee classes are empty.

 

 

 

footnote: And just to add important information about the Mech. This class only has one 17x representative who is an old player who only does PVE and plays with the auto mech in EB (PS and ASS don't even have 17x representatives).  With the exception of him and LoveMachine, who are high level and very strong and can afford to remain as MS because they are very strong anyway due to level and items, the vast majority of other mechanics below them or want to sell or change classes and some are just tanker mules from some other main class. You just don't see an even heavier depletion in the mechanic rankings, because many players don't have the financial means to change classes and at the same time, they can't sell mechanic items to get rid of the class and move on to another. This is very sad and brings a lot of frustration to these players. Even though I'm no longer playing with the mech, I would like the staff to look kindly at this class and help these players, because many are discouraged and have become less active due to the current circumstances.

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2024 by Equester

[sinhvn 79]

I tested powermech in eb and it was horrible dmg solo 1v1 and aoe. I use taurus +24 armor 140+20 with full premium + heal phoenix and dmg only 3k grand smash (strongest 1v1 skill) and 5k5 crit, aoe dmg is 5k spark. But powermech have REALLY REALLY LONG SKILL CAST, so 5 mins buff i only kill 5-7 mob spawn (3 dogs and 2 demon still count 1). And powermech need metal armor for receive 150-250+ dmg from mob . If he change to maximine it will be 400-500+. Hp power ms is 1600+ so if you love ms and want build him , only choice is tanker/automs

Edited October 8, 2024 by sinhvn

[Equester 295]

49 minutes ago, sinhvn said:

I tested powermech in eb and it was horrible dmg solo 1v1 and aoe. I use taurus +24 armor 140+20 with full premium + heal phoenix and dmg only 3k grand smash (strongest 1v1 skill) and 5k5 crit, aoe dmg is 5k spark. But powermech have REALLY REALLY LONG SKILL CAST, so 5 mins buff i only kill 5-7 mob spawn (3 dogs and 2 demon still count 1). And powermech need metal armor for receive 150-250+ dmg from mob . If he change to maximine it will be 400-500+. Hp power ms is 1600+ so if you love ms and want build him , only choice is tanker/automs

Exactly my friend! This is what i told to @Overlady in my previous post about mech! 

 

Im playing with PS and, today, a power mech recieves the same damage as PS or FS, but has less HP than FS and kill 2 times slower than an FS or even PS. If you go tanker you will kill around 3 or 4 times slower to recieve the same damage as a k9 using his defesnive buffs, while k9 can kill even faster than PS, losing only for FS and ATA. 

 

Thats why, i believe MS power should be able to use Metal Armor + Maximize (but not trine shield and compulsion, and this is a way to improve his defensive capabilities with 2h weapon) and also, the delay of Magnetc Spheres should be reduced and the time duration should be a little longer, increasing this auxiliary skill time to increase the MS DPS. In the same way, reduce the distance between the minimum and maximum damage of Maximize (increase the minimum and decrease a little the maximum dmage) to avoid very low critical hits and some very high critical hits, dealing more padronized damage with less range to keep his DPS stable and avoid a to strong mech in pvp. In addition, the Grand Smash should have its attack rating improved so mech would be able to miss less hits and improve his criticals damage in order to not miss 90% of hits against a KS in PVP duels and also be able to improve its ability to kill in 1v1 PVE scenarios.  Then you will see Mechs backing to life again! 

 

We need many changes on all of this! 

Edited October 8, 2024 by Equester

[TigerShark22 488]

16 hours ago, Equester said:

The time of execution of an animation is not the same as DPS or the the same as final result. FS is the top 1 DPS while SS is not even in top 5. The DPS  is the sum of execution speed, total damage, including critical and white damage and the ability to land more or less the hits you execute in a period of time and not merely in seconds of execution. Also, it must include all main skills and not a poor comparision with 1 skill of each class. Therefore, you are misinformed.

 

You also stated an untruth when you said that MGS's PVE is the best. The MGS can only fully realize its potential if it has the support of a tanking class to freely attack a large number of MOBS. If put in a 1v1 condition on a map like EB, he would barely be able to use the staff. If you are placed in a place with many mobs, so that you can tank, you will not be able to use a staff and when using a bubble, your mana will be drained and you will find yourself in a very difficult situation to execute skills. The best PVE in the game, depending on your own skills, is KS. Therefore, you are misinformed.

 

 

 

 

The videos were made with 16x classes, equipped with items from the same line, the same age, therefore, level classes and similar items and with the correct execution of the skills of all classes compared. All are avaiable on youtube. Although there may be a small variation depending on one player to another, the result, mathematically speaking, is valuable because it is an approximation of reality based on data and tests and not mere opinion, like yours.

 

 

 

 

If you guess, you dont know. period!

 

SS is not superior just because you are saying it is or that you want. If KS is the best tanker in EB, also the third best killer, while SS is not even top 5, if the KS has the most competitive ranking and the majority of plaayers,  if the KS is capable of characteristics such as tanking and killer, including better 1v1 skills and as good as the SS in AOE, so the KS overal is better than the SS althoug, as i told before, SS is also one of the best!  Furthermore, your statement that SS is better than KS is based on your personal impression and not on data. SW's data shows that both are excellent, but KS's pvp score tends to be higher than that achieved by SS. In the SW two weeks ago, for example, a ks 156 was able to achieve 66 kills and 0 deaths, having a streak of 66. No SS 15x came close to a result like that. Currently, the KS score is once again higher than the SS score. Both classes are very good and they hold the top 4 players on the server, although, if compared individually by level, the KS ranking has 5 players 17x, while the SS ranks have 3 players. The KS top 10 cutoff level is 167, while the SS cutoff level is 165. All the data points in a direction contrary to your opinion. They confirm that overall the KS is the best class and the SS is one of the best, but there is no scenario such as "SS is much better than ks bla bla bla" as you said. 

 

The argument that SS is a relatively new class is fallacious, because MS is a very old class and even so, the SS rank is much higher than the MS rank. The SS Ranking is even higher than that of PS and FS, which are also old classes. So this shows that the time of the classes does not directly influence the number of players in the ranking, but rather its current cost-benefit and the balance of the classes. If your argument were true, MS, PS and FS should have their rankings with more players, individually compared, than SS and this is not true. Therefore, you keep saying meaningless things because you want to pull the string on your side.

 

The nostalgy factor you refer to is completely subjective and cannot be measured. Furthermore, it is a continuation of the first fallacious argument, because if nostalgia were a determining factor, MS, PS and FS would have ranks with more players and higher cut-off lines than SS and this is not true. These are just thoughts in your head to try to support your opinion, which is completely subjective and individual. You cannot measure nostalgy and you dont know how nostalgy works for each player, since you are talking about feelings and players ha different feeling about the game and different feelings about the classes. 

 

And yes, there was a time when MECHS dominated the game, because in fact, as you said, they were better in PVE, especially with the presence of the Auto Mech and they were also better in PVP, which is why they were heavily nerfed to The point that the nerf had the effect of a punishment with tones of revenge, which made it, today, a dead class!

 

 

Finally, it doesn't make any sense for you to argue that the FS needs more damage or speed, which are its strong points, when it has the best DPS and is one of the meta classes for PVP. What FS needs is NOT TO BE NERFED, because there are many players who will try, in every way, to take down FS because it is really strong. But it must be strong because this is the design and purpose of this class. The ones who should be nerfed, for the good of the game, are Brawler, ATA and KS. Brawler in its offensive potential, because it kills a lot more than it should and no one disputes that,  especially because it is easy to observe the results of matches between BS against other classes, where it easily wins the vast majority of the time,  ATA because she is tanking a lot, but is also capable to hit kill and stay stand in body to body combats against FS, PS, ASS, MS and KS, and the KS in its capacity defensiveness that is exaggerated making him almost imkortal if you put good gear + relics.  FS must be maintained like this. Likewise, melees should be better able to survive in dungeons to use their area skills and magic classes should not be giving HK as they are. In this sense, the PVP damage of classes like SS, MGS and PRS should be reduced due to their ability to scale damage with buffs and collective strength. I argue that magical classes cannot individually be able to win a confrontation against the Tempskrons, which are the classes that have their individual capabilities highlighted. In this sense, in 1v1 duels the advantage would be of tempskrons and in SW or in group PVP, the strength of morions would stand out due to their buffs, ranges, debuffs and ability to control others, which are skills that do not exist in ricarten's classes. Today, support classes are killing better in pvp then assassins classes.  This imbalance is the reason for the high concentration of players in magic classes and KS, while melee classes are empty.

 

 

 

footnote: And just to add important information about the Mech. This class only has one 17x representative who is an old player who only does PVE and plays with the auto mech in EB (PS and ASS don't even have 17x representatives).  With the exception of him and LoveMachine, who are high level and very strong and can afford to remain as MS because they are very strong anyway due to level and items, the vast majority of other mechanics below them or want to sell or change classes and some are just tanker mules from some other main class. You just don't see an even heavier depletion in the mechanic rankings, because many players don't have the financial means to change classes and at the same time, they can't sell mechanic items to get rid of the class and move on to another. This is very sad and brings a lot of frustration to these players. Even though I'm no longer playing with the mech, I would like the staff to look kindly at this class and help these players, because many are discouraged and have become less active due to the current circumstances.

 

 

 

You were talking about speed. We can also talk DPS: ASS is the best among the classes I have played in 1v1 DPS. About SS vs FS: You can't compare a tanky class with 1h weapon, to a 2h weapon of a close range glass cannon. Yet his DPS are very high too, and even if both use a tank- he's not too far from FS ( And as you state, just like the KS- SS takes far less punishment than even 1h FS. And unlike KS- SS's DPS are higher than KS). The crit of FS doesn't matter too much, when SS's has insane regular damage at PvE.

 

About MGS: Im misinformed? Go check LC at solo rank: at easy mode and medium- MGS are the best. You are also misinformed about PvE: In none dungeon, you don't count tankyness, cause everyone own a tank. When some1 tanks for him- MGS does a better job than a KS at killing. And unlike KS- he actually has a useful support buff+long range+ the fact that he's almost as tanky as KS, when both use 1h weapon, despite being a ranged high DPS magic class. The same could be said about SS.

 

 

The video you are talking about: They had lvl diff+ gears diff+ it was made long ago, before the relatively new balance patches. Also there is also a key factor of gameplay: The user himself didn't ultilize his gameplay in few chars ( MS included). What Im talking is pure facts, because unlike you, I have literally tried them all. For example ASS, the fastest killer in the game, can end mobs in EB in around 10~16 secs, depends on type. You would actually be surprised about how fast she is. she's a lot quicker than FS/KS.

 

Idk who told you that there is a need to be the best tanker in EB while maintaining his abillity to kill- but there isn't. Also KS isn't the 3rd best killer, not at all. I have already refered to the rest of your arguements there.

 

 

About ranking: It is true,  that many like KS FS PS. Mech however, wasn't liked as much. didn't look as cool+ was always a lousy killer+no AOE in the OG times. Yet if u actually didn't read it- I literally agree with you that mech became so unpopular, and stated what to do about it above. And again- Mech is superior to FS and KS in PvP even now, when it comes to 1v1. Just again, players are too used to it being OP. and to KS/FS losing like 10-0 ( There was literally an old video of it ).

 

In addition to it, there are more SSs despite that- purely because of how good he is. You also can't see growth of number of players 160+, and while the number of KS barely moved, the player base of SS more than doubled since his animation speed buff patch.  It is a class that was even good before that patch, yet became OP after that. The fact that players cried about SS, is because they didn't like SS enough to actually play it and enjoy it's benefits.

 

About nostalgia: It is subjective, yet if you would have actually gone around, and asked players over the years, you will get to the point that yes- Im right. Some of it is just PT smarts.

 

About classes that should be nerfed: You are right about BS and ATA. ATA has no place at the top of the food chain in 1v1 PvP ( especially with buffs), and BS is just way too OP, to the point its off the charts. About FS- The buff should be to help axe FS. In addition to it, a HP buff is needed/ damage buff to AC. The extra HP of health boost was extremely useful in low lvls, yet as the lvl got higher, the +static amount of HP became more and more useless. FS has 105% damage boost on AC before 142 gears+ no tulla relic was the meta. It could be nerfed to 95% ( could also avoid it), yet the moment tulla relic was out, it needed to go back to 105% to balance it back. Also especially when 146 gears are out, and now the PvP dynamics went back to around how it was when 122 weapon+ 138 weapon were meta, and there weren't any relics. Same could be said about KS PvP- back to mule stun, yet unlike before, when players couldn't kill 1h KS easly, and he couldn't kill them in return- they now can kill 1h KS, while the 1h KS can't kill in return. Pretty unfair, and he should have either his damage boosted/ or his damage reduction rised in order to go back to a balance that makes sense.

 

Well, the reason while melees aren't popular, is because of their PvE. Close ranged+ can't tank ( ASS+ FS+PS are like this.  Yet about ASS- she was supposed to be like this, because of her insanely high DPS. FS+PS should have decent DPS, not as good, yet should be able to tank better than their current situation).

Or Mech's case, which is just sad. As community, we should all rise, and ask to nerf auto MS+ buff the AOE of power mech, so mech can be decent again.

 

9 hours ago, Equester said:

Exactly my friend! This is what i told to @Overlady in my previous post about mech! 

 

Im playing with PS and, today, a power mech recieves the same damage as PS or FS, but has less HP than FS and kill 2 times slower than an FS or even PS. If you go tanker you will kill around 3 or 4 times slower to recieve the same damage as a k9 using his defesnive buffs, while k9 can kill even faster than PS, losing only for FS and ATA. 

 

Thats why, i believe MS power should be able to use Metal Armor + Maximize (but not trine shield and compulsion, and this is a way to improve his defensive capabilities with 2h weapon) and also, the delay of Magnetc Spheres should be reduced and the time duration should be a little longer, increasing this auxiliary skill time to increase the MS DPS. In the same way, reduce the distance between the minimum and maximum damage of Maximize (increase the minimum and decrease a little the maximum dmage) to avoid very low critical hits and some very high critical hits, dealing more padronized damage with less range to keep his DPS stable and avoid a to strong mech in pvp. In addition, the Grand Smash should have its attack rating improved so mech would be able to miss less hits and improve his criticals damage in order to not miss 90% of hits against a KS in PVP duels and also be able to improve its ability to kill in 1v1 PVE scenarios.  Then you will see Mechs backing to life again! 

 

We need many changes on all of this! 

 

If you think mech kills slowly in 1v1, you didn't try KS as you said you did then. power mech 1v1 DPS is more than fine.

[sinhvn 79]

11 hours ago, TigerShark22 said:

If you think mech kills slowly in 1v1, you didn't try KS as you said you did then. power mech 1v1 DPS is more than fine.

ks 148 with 138 mix sol better kill mob than ms with taurus+24, i try all the melee char

[TigerShark22 488]

7 hours ago, sinhvn said:

ks 148 with 138 mix sol better kill mob than ms with taurus+24, i try all the melee char

Idk what you tried, if you tried. I tried MS 161 vs KS 160, both 146+24 items +gems. They kill mobs at 1v1 cases around the same ( Power MS vs KS).

Edited October 9, 2024 by TigerShark22

[ace1 125]

the day you guys understand auto-mech simply can not exist you will finally find space to make MS a decent tanker and decent 1v1 damage and finally become a class that makes sense.

this "extra" build that allows the tankiest class in game to be a ranger simply makes the whole class much better than any other class in game, causing the whole server to swap to MS until it's just obvious to everyone MS should be nerfed because you only see MS around in town and in the rankings... and this is when MS receives a NERF again, becomes a joke class again, and the loop restarts, with people spreading to other classes until people realize nobody plays MS anymore because now it's completely sh't again.

MS will only find a decent balance spot when precision skill no longer exists... Precision skill is and will always be a problem for MS.

"but MS class design says it should use many weapon and bla bla bla bla bla" all i have to say is MATHEMATICS comes before "class design"... in the wrong hands "class design" is just an excuse for impementing bizarre and unbalanced stuff just because someone says it is "class design"...

[TigerShark22 488]

Fun fact in the rankings:

More 160+ PRS and MGS than KS. Lol I’m not updated ahaha, finally players started to grasp how strong magic classes are. SS are also so common, despite being so unpopular 2 years ago. How the times change. 

[FluppyGM 112]

52 minutes ago, TigerShark22 said:

Fun fact in the rankings:

More 160+ PRS and MGS than KS. Lol I’m not updated ahaha, finally players started to grasp how strong magic classes are. SS are also so common, despite being so unpopular 2 years ago. How the times change. 

Well, they are strong yes, in PVE, but I think the main reason is because PRS is the BEST support in the game, needed in almost all instances, and MGS is the strongest PVE killer in the game, people use it a lot in EB and DG.
 

Other aspects I see more KS, BS and ATA.
Archer is showing up more now 🤫.

We have to wait for the next patch and see what will change.

Edited October 14, 2024 by FluppyGM

[Only2Hit 21]

Sorry i say straight but MS Char right now is bull **** and no1 dont use this build ! 

[TigerShark22 488]

On 10/14/2024 at 11:21 PM, FluppyGM said:

Well, they are strong yes, in PVE, but I think the main reason is because PRS is the BEST support in the game, needed in almost all instances, and MGS is the strongest PVE killer in the game, people use it a lot in EB and DG.
 

Other aspects I see more KS, BS and ATA.
Archer is showing up more now 🤫.

We have to wait for the next patch and see what will change.

Prs is OP in duels.

Mage is also very strong in duels. 
 

Where exactly do u see KS? Popular at PvE?

 

you realize that after the 1st KS in party, there will be priority to mage right? And even after the 1st mage, mage is always a priority. 
 

BS ofc- OP at PvP

 

ATA- top killer for PvE, and 1 of the top classes to PvP with. What I wrote here is also true for SS. 

AS- a lot stronger than many estimate, just archers are either with PvE build/ Team fights builds, and are usually too lazy switching to efficient 1v1 build. Yet it doesn’t mean that they don’t have 1. 

[AnjusKnight 28]

On 08/10/2024 at 08:13, Equester said:

O tempo de execução de uma animação não é o mesmo que DPS ou o mesmo que o resultado final. FS é o top 1 DPS enquanto SS não está nem no top 5. O DPS   é a soma da velocidade de execução, dano total, incluindo dano crítico e branco e a habilidade de acertar mais ou menos os golpes que você executa em um período de tempo e não meramente em segundos de execução. Além disso, deve incluir todas as habilidades principais e não uma comparação ruim com 1 habilidade de cada classe. Portanto, você está mal informado.

 

Você também declarou uma inverdade quando disse que o PVE do MGS é o melhor. O MGS só pode realizar seu potencial totalmente se tiver o suporte de uma classe tank para atacar livremente um grande número de MOBS. Se colocado em uma condição 1x1 em um mapa como EB, ele mal conseguiria usar o cajado. Se você for colocado em um lugar com muitos mobs, para que possa tankar, não conseguirá usar um cajado e ao usar uma bolha, seu mana será drenado e você se encontrará em uma situação muito difícil para executar habilidades. O melhor PVE do jogo, dependendo de suas próprias habilidades, é KS . Portanto, você está mal informado.

 

 

 

 

Os vídeos foram feitos com classes 16x, equipados com itens da mesma linha, mesma idade, portanto, classes de nível e itens similares e com a execução correta das habilidades de todas as classes comparadas. Todos estão disponíveis no youtube. Embora possa haver uma pequena variação dependendo de um jogador para outro, o resultado, matematicamente falando, é valioso porque é uma aproximação da realidade baseada em dados e testes e não mera opinião, como a sua.

 

 

 

 

Se você chutar, você não sabe. Ponto final!

 

SS não é superior só porque você está dizendo que é ou que você quer. Se KS é o melhor tanker em EB, também o terceiro melhor killer, enquanto SS não está nem no top 5, se o KS tem o ranking mais competitivo e a maioria dos jogadores, se o KS é capaz de características como tanking e killer, incluindo melhores habilidades 1v1 e tão bom quanto o SS em AOE, então o KS no geral é melhor que o SS embora, como eu disse antes, SS também seja um dos melhores! Além disso, sua afirmação de que SS é melhor que KS é baseada em sua impressão pessoal e não em dados. Os dados do SW mostram que ambos são excelentes, mas a pontuação pvp do KS tende a ser maior do que a alcançada pelo SS . No SW há duas semanas, por exemplo, um ks 156 conseguiu atingir 66 kills e 0 deaths, tendo uma sequência de 66. Nenhum SS 15x chegou perto de um resultado como esse. Atualmente, a pontuação do KS é mais uma vez maior que a pontuação do SS . Ambas as classes são muito boas e detêm os 4 melhores jogadores do servidor, embora, se comparados individualmente por nível, o ranking KS tenha 5 jogadores 17x, enquanto os rankings SS têm 3 jogadores. O nível de corte do top 10 do KS é 167, enquanto o nível de corte do SS é 165. Todos os dados apontam em uma direção contrária à sua opinião. Eles confirmam que, no geral, o KS é a melhor classe e o SS é um dos melhores, mas não há cenário como " SS é muito melhor que ks blá blá blá" como você disse. 

 

O argumento de que SS é uma classe relativamente nova é falacioso, porque MS é uma classe muito antiga e mesmo assim, o rank SS é muito maior que o rank MS . O Ranking SS é até maior que o de PS e FS , que também são classes antigas. Então isso mostra que o tempo das classes não influencia diretamente no número de jogadores no ranking, mas sim no seu custo-benefício atual e no equilíbrio das classes. Se seu argumento fosse verdadeiro, MS , PS e FS deveriam ter seus rankings com mais jogadores, comparados individualmente, do que SS e isso não é verdade. Portanto, você continua dizendo coisas sem sentido porque quer puxar a corda do seu lado.

 

O fator nostalgia ao qual você se refere é completamente subjetivo e não pode ser medido. Além disso, é uma continuação do primeiro argumento falacioso, porque se a nostalgia fosse um fator determinante, MS , PS e FS teriam classificações com mais jogadores e linhas de corte mais altas do que SS e isso não é verdade. Esses são apenas pensamentos na sua cabeça para tentar apoiar sua opinião, que é completamente subjetiva e individual. Você não pode medir a nostalgia e não sabe como a nostalgia funciona para cada jogador, já que você está falando sobre sentimentos e os jogadores têm sentimentos diferentes sobre o jogo e sentimentos diferentes sobre as classes. 

 

E sim, houve um tempo em que os MECHS dominaram o jogo, porque de fato, como você disse, eles eram melhores no PVE, principalmente com a presença do Auto Mech e também eram melhores no PVP, por isso foram fortemente nerfados a ponto do nerf ter o efeito de uma punição com tons de vingança, o que fez dele, hoje, uma classe morta!

 

 

Por fim, não faz sentido você argumentar que o FS precisa de mais dano ou velocidade, que são seus pontos fortes, quando ele tem o melhor DPS e é uma das classes meta para PVP. O que o FS precisa NÃO SER NERFADO, porque há muitos jogadores que tentarão, de todas as formas, derrubar o FS porque ele é realmente forte. Mas ele deve ser forte porque esse é o design e o propósito dessa classe. Os que devem ser nerfados, para o bem do jogo, são Brawler, ATA e KS . Brawler no seu potencial ofensivo, porque mata muito mais do que deveria e ninguém contesta isso, principalmente porque é fácil observar os resultados de partidas entre BS contra outras classes, onde vence facilmente a grande maioria das vezes,  ATA porque é tanker muito, mas também é capaz de dar hit kill e ficar stand em combates corpo a corpo contra FS , PS , ASS , MS e KS , e o KS na sua capacidade defensiva que é exagerada tornando-o quase imkortal se colocar bons equipamentos + relíquias.   FS deve ser mantido assim. Da mesma forma, melees devem ser mais capazes de sobreviver em dungeons para usar suas habilidades de área e classes de magia não devem estar dando HK como estão. Nesse sentido, o dano PVP de classes como SS , MGS e PRS deve ser reduzido devido à sua capacidade de escalar dano com buffs e força coletiva. Eu argumento que classes mágicas não podem individualmente ser capazes de vencer um confronto contra os Tempskrons, que são as classes que têm suas capacidades individuais destacadas. Nesse sentido, em duelos 1v1 a vantagem seria dos tempskrons e em SW ou em grupo PVP, a força dos morions se destacaria devido aos seus buffs, ranges, debuffs e capacidade de controlar os outros, que são habilidades que não existem nas classes de ricarten. Hoje, as classes de suporte estão matando melhor em pvp do que as classes de assassinos. Esse desequilíbrio é o motivo da alta concentração de jogadores em classes de magia e KS , enquanto as classes de corpo a corpo estão vazias.

 

 

 

nota de rodapé: E só para adicionar informações importantes sobre o Mech. Esta classe tem apenas um representante 17x que é um jogador antigo que só faz PVE e joga com o mech automático em EB (PSeASSnem têm representantes 17x). Com exceção dele e LoveMachine, que são de alto nível e muito fortes e podem se dar ao luxo de permanecer comoMSporque são muito fortes de qualquer maneira devido ao nível e aos itens, a grande maioria dos outros mecânicos abaixo deles ou querem vender ou mudar de classe e alguns são apenas mulas-tanque de alguma outra classe principal. Você simplesmente não vê um esgotamento ainda maior nas classificações de mecânicos, porque muitos jogadores não têm os meios financeiros para mudar de classe e, ao mesmo tempo, não podem vender itens mecânicos para se livrar da classe e passar para outra. Isso é muito triste e traz muita frustração para esses jogadores. Mesmo que eu não esteja mais jogando com o mech, gostaria que a equipe olhasse com gentileza para esta classe e ajudasse esses jogadores, porque muitos estão desanimados e se tornaram menos ativos devido às circunstâncias atuais.

 

 

 

+1

[GreatKing 40]

No need to delete, just don't use it  and instead play with other chars that give you satisfaction. Who knows, sometime in the near future the admin might improve on it.

[Djonatan W. 0]

+1

[amazing23 2]

On 10/3/2024 at 9:09 AM, shorty said:

@Overlady If it continues like this with the mech, you will soon be able to delete it. When I see that you can't even sell a 146 Claw, it's really pointless (and Staff and Sword is 10x higher). Maybe a cheap exchange campaign for drop 146 items would remedy the situation for the market, but the character itself is really dead. In my eyes, something has to be done here as a direct next step, otherwise it really looks a little greedy from the creators

+1

[ChookaPow 226]

On 10/7/2024 at 10:33 AM, alzaabi said:

In short there is no use to make MS class in this server anymore !!

 

KS CAN DO WHAT EVER MS CAN DO AND BETTER

 

Every char in the game has advantages and disadvantages ONLY MS they forget to add the advantages part...

mah boi mechanicien guy no fix cars but beefy tanky

[lavanm221282 33]

On 10/7/2024 at 9:18 AM, SupremeDeity said:

LMAO, dev and GM or whoever read this post then be like MS good at it is no rework or buff needed. 

Reality is idk how many times we have voices our opinion on classes like MS need a real rework. But they don't seem to listen any way, they would rather do stuff get yall pay and make money

Exactly!! 
RIP MS CLAS =))))))))))))))))))
Btw, S> MS 164 39% 6/12 nake or full, who need inb plz! 

[Mulambento 33]

On 03/10/2024 at 10:56, Equester said:

Também BS deve ser incluído nesta lista! PVE bem ruim e PVP quebrado! 

You are a liar, GR currently has the BEST PVP OF ALL CLASSES, and in PVE you just need to know how to use the skills correctly, you want to leave the character standing still like a wizard in the mono skill... you have to know how to use all of her skills during PVE

[neinhalt 44]

+1

[Rasthafary 191]

now he's buried the mech for good, because he was only good for tank spaws, now he can't even do that,

ecause it's not worth it, he won't gain xp standing still.

 

please fix it.

all classes deserve to be good.

[Verdehile 60]

I came from the future to tell you that even after almost 5 months later, mechs still trash and useless. 

If you are wondering about creating a mech, just create a KS, he's a better killer and tanker 😃

[TadsK 43]

7 hours ago, Rasthafary said:

now he's buried the mech for good, because he was only good for tank spaws, now he can't even do that,

ecause it's not worth it, he won't gain xp standing still.

 

please fix it.

all classes deserve to be good.

Well, just standing still is not really making it any good. I guess now it is even worse, but if all you can do as stand still, that is pretty bad already.

[Rasthafary 191]

14 minutes ago, TadsK said:

Well, just standing still is not really making it any good. I guess now it is even worse, but if all you can do as stand still, that is pretty bad already.

nobody is a mech nowadays, because their damage is low compared to other chars, so they're only using them to tank the big spaw.

so the gameplay is as follows, you buff the mech, let it stand still and sometimes use a pot, by doing this you don't gain the party's xp.

in other words, there's no point in you having a MS, but you DEPEND ON IT, if you're a ranger for example. i call this the wartalian paradox.