ThaPimpHandSlap's Special Questions Topic!~

[CliffMaster 0]

Hi all,

 

ThaPimpHandSlap(Cliff) here

i'm seeing there are alot of People on the forum and Ingame that are asking alot of Questions about Pristontale related things

such as:

 

-what is the best build for *Class*?

-what is the fastest way to make money

-where is the best place to train @t my lvl?

 

etc, etc. so i thought, why not make a Topic for everyone's Questions

so if anyone wanna know something PristonTale related? feel free to ask me in this topic

 

i'll give u guys a Pm or a reply in this topic, whatever suits me best^^,

[danchoitn 0]

What do you play RPT for?

[CliffMaster 0]

What do you play RPT for?

 

because i love it!

 

but this topic is for everyone who has a question!

[Melocrie 0]

Best build: depends on your goals

 

Faster way to make money: donate for coins then sell those for gold

 

Best place to xp: ad1

[DarkLink64 921]

Best way to make loyal friends: Join Herectics!

 

hahaha jkjk

[CliffMaster 0]

Best build: depends on your goals

 

Faster way to make money: donate for coins then sell those for gold

 

Best place to xp: ad1

 

Dude, u don't get how this works -.-

[Guest BloodBrothers]

FAILZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ 8)

[Gogg 3]

Why mech's abs don't work?

 

 

I wanna see that now 8)

[Zero 0]

Why mech's abs don't work?

 

 

I wanna see that now 8)

 

Compulsions abs boost does not work if something outside of its range when cast attacks you. Otherwise mechs abs do work as intended, its just the way criticals work in PvP can make for misleading conclusions.

[Gogg 3]

That's not what I see neither what Wartale told me once...

[Guest BloodBrothers]

That's not what I see neither what Wartale told me once...

What did he told you then ?

[Gogg 3]

That it wasn't working and he didn't know why.

[Zero 0]

That's not what I see neither what Wartale told me once...

 

Consider first that unless you cast compulsion with your enemies in range in PvP, the additional abs it shows is meaningless. That said you're probably looking at around 270ish abs and 3500 defense for a tankmech [not to be too precise since I'm not a mech]. With the range of an attack a pikeman can obtain with a force, he can still drop you from full HP in single CS with about one or two criticals, it depends on how much HP you have [keep in mind the current VL is purely cosmetic, the additional HP you gain is cancelled out by other factors]. Criticals are a huge problem, and they work in a manner that is rather broken to speak. Even if the non-criticals do not deal much damage, criticals can deal well over 2x-3x non-criticals due to the non-sensible PvP formula.

 

For the sake of a quick example, we'll say you have 300 abs and an attack does 500 damage:

-For a non-critical, it is simply 500-300 = 200 damage for a non-critical, not that bad.

-For a critical, you multiply the damage by 70% before subtracting out for abs.

-(500*1.7) = 850

-850 - 300 = 550 damage

 

-The critical dealt 2.75x as much damage (175% boost) as the non-critical, even though it is only supposed to be a 70% boost (1.7x), because abs is subtracted out after all other multipliers instead of before. This would not be a problem if the formula was purely multiplication like PvE, or if they simply made it so that abs is subtracted first before critical boost is applied, otherwise it is always a static reduction and multiplication will always win out over addition and subtraction in games.

 

-With this said, a tankmech is no attacking threat, all you can do is sit there while they continually exhaust probability through repeated attacks until they hit the scenario where things line up properly to drop you in a single shot. This is still with only a single person, your odds get drastically worse with each additional opponent, debuffs such as assassin's eyes, and so forth. I was quite surprised myself to see that with a good force and set of equipment, that it is possible to even drop a tankmech from full HP in a single shot depending on their HP and other stats. There is no mistake that you see an attack hit for 0-100 damage then 500+ the next time. That is how broken criticals are with the way they are applied.

 

-I extensively tested and figured out quite a bit of mechanics to prove this, the problem is not abs, but the way criticals are applied. As long as criticals apply this way, it is all pretty meaningless in PvP. 

 

 

[Gogg 3]

Too much words to explain nothing.

 

Without that absorption obtained with Compulsion there's no class that can get even close to the same defense, block or absorption of a tanking mech. But still, fighters and knights take less damage in a single hit than a mech. Not supposing, I had all them and tested over and over again. Plus Wartale himself told me it was not working.

[Zero 0]

Too much words to explain nothing.

 

Without that absorption obtained with Compulsion there's no class that can get even close to the same defense, block or absorption of a tanking mech. But still, fighters and knights take less damage in a single hit than a mech. Not supposing, I had all them and tested over and over again. Plus Wartale himself told me it was not working.

 

I remain skeptical to say the least, as I have seen nothing in the data I have collected that suggests that mech works any differently in abs, compulsion aside, than any other class. Until I find evidence that suggests this, I cannot do anything about it. Blocking and defending hits is another story, as that involves statistics that I do not usually care enough to get into [i will investigate ES later tho]. But as far as their abs, it works the exact same way the formula for every other class does.

 

The literal range on some skills can be 0-1300 on a skill like chain lance with high attack against something like a tankmech. Yes, it is perfectly possible for 3 non-criticals of chain lance to do 0 damage, then for 3 criticals to do 1.3k, which would probably one shot most any mech. PS/FS have superior HP, with criticals essentially rendering abs difference useless, HP wins out. 1 abs reduces only a single damage point whether it is a critical or non-critical attack, so the 76 abs boost mech gets does not even compare to the 250 HP skill FS gets, it is 100% equivalent to a 76 HP boost. This makes FS a better tanker for high offense characters, even over a tankmech. The only advantage the mech has is in being able to essentially guard the lower end of the attack spectrum [where abs reduces the attack to 0 or below], which is relatively pointless once someone criticals.

 

Since a tankmech is no threat in attack, it also loses the ability to halt its opponents by forcing them to heal through attacks as an FS/PS would.

 

Lag is another issue, even with a single character it is possible to get a "damage flood" as the game calls it, so things may not always be registering properly.

 

It may also be a more specific bug than just the general skill, as other conditions might have to be met to glitch the abs so to speak, similar to the "robe bug" that existed on ept for prs/mgs.

 

I cannot help if I am unable to replicate what you are talking about, see below.

 

If you want to go and collect the data for me that proves what you're talking about, then list the exact stats of the attackers/defenders, and the damage that was dealt with what skill. Be careful not to add any attacking buffs, as we are finding several bugs of either not working or hidden bonuses with those, so stick to non-attack buffed attackers. Do this with purely 1 v 1 situations to avoid complications, and take at least 10 measurements for the defenders. If you find data that is outside of the general formula I developed, I will admit I was wrong, that a bug exists, and I will then work to replicate it to the best of my ability. If it is within the expected range, then the problem is attributed to the effects I already listed here.

[Gogg 3]

That does not explain different damages on different classes. If everything work as they're supposed to do something like that should not happen.

 

I don't care about numbers. I got eyes. Eyes that watch this game for almost 2 years, not just watching, playing this on hardcore mode. And even more, the guy who develop this game said himself it's not working as it's supposed to be and that's the reason that justify so many changes on mech skills.

[Zero 0]

Could you find when and where sandurr said this? As far as I'm told, he doesn't currently believe this.

 

The best way to settle it is with numbers regardless. If you're talking about eyeballing then you get into HP differences, and for reasons I've already explained, it can be expected that other classes can lose a lesser % of their total HP due to how it works. 

 

Eyeballing is good for spotting what to be skeptical about, but it is certainly not definitive proof. If you're going to tell me that there is a problem just because you perceive one by eyeballing, it is difficult for someone with actual numbers and data that are proven to work to believe in your theory when the actual data says otherwise.

[Gogg 3]

Fine. I don't believe in you. Gonna keep trying to convince me?

[Zero 0]

Fine. I don't believe in you. Gonna keep trying to convince me?

 

Possibly, I suppose I could log on a mech and predict your damages before you use an attack [with and without MA], then post SS's or a video proving the range is within my predictions. That's going pretty far just to prove this to one player though.

[Gogg 3]

Do whatever you want, say whatever you want.

 

I don't see it working, and I'm not alone on that. Numbers, theories and predictions won't change it.

[Zero 0]

So even if I prove to you in game that your attack does the exact amount of damage I expect (accounting for the fact you have an attack range ofc), and that after casting MA, it does less by the exact amount I predict it too, then it is not sufficient proof that abs work as they're supposed to?

 

Even if I was to say, do this for a variety of players you present?

 

Now that is simply being in denial. For as much credit as you give to eyeballing, eyesight is a part of data. You can look at numbers just as you can look at an HP bar or anything else. Sure on paper and everything else the theory can be nonsense, but you can't deny the actual in game test data, as it is the "real world" so to speak as far as we're considered in this game. Throw out theory and everything else, I don't have a problem with you or anyone else doing that, but if you're going to tell me what you see in-game is not what is really happening then I am simply baffled as to how you come up with such a notion.

 

Theories are also only theories until they have evidence, once there is no doubt to a theory it is considered fact. Like it or not, your concern of mech abs is still only a theory until evidence proves it fact, so it is no better off than what you tell me about theory.

[Gogg 3]

You didn't prove anything so far. I just see words, words and words.

[Zero 0]

You didn't prove anything so far. I just see words, words and words.

 

I offered to prove it to you in game, but you said it would not change your mind regardless of the results. There is no point in wasting my time if that is the case.

 

If you have reconsidered otherwise, then tell me when to log on and I will meet you at BC and we will perform the demonstration I described. 

 

As I have not examined force effects fully yet, you would need to avoid those if you agree. Many attack buffs are also bugged, including maxi.  Everything else should basically be fine.

 

 

[DarkLink64 921]

I was with Wartale and Davv when he did tests and FIXED the Mech ABS bug. What happen is:

 

Too much ATK Damage on single hits. What value most tanking powerfull single hits are HP. ABS is important, but it make not much difference at all, HP does much more difference when tanking 1 hits.

 

 

 

 

[Gogg 3]

I'm not interested on those tests.

 

This all make sense, but I live what happens. A 132 well eqipped mech losing half HP when not instantly killed by a 140 mech when this same 140 mech couldn't kill alone a 127 knight way less equipped than the 132 mech. A 122 mech instantly dying to a 12x pike's CL all time while a 116 fighter almost never take the same?

 

All them with, basically, the same HP. I guess I don't need to say mech's defenses are way superior than any of them. And I don't need to be a genius to clearly see there's something wrong.