[Discussion]Patch 3244

[Ashitaka99 0]

yay +100WP damage on Enchant Weapon ! that rocks

[QMan 0]

difference about 7hit KS and 7hit PS is

 

KS 7 hit miss 50% hit rate up

but PS 7hit not(with atk rat mastery)

 

in BC 1skill with 7hit PS make all die easy

also jumping crash

also charge strike

not include ice and high block&evade

....

 

should go to test it

QMan if u wanna whine so much go class change to pike, its already very good that they boost dp dmg already, whats more u want? If you think knight is so unfair or the server is unfair no 1 is stopping you to class change or quit playing, deal? Shhhh your so noisy..

 

i discussing in new patch

if u dont like..still dont like

 

my predict & discussing is true

with OP balance for PS class

 

dont try to stop me

if u dont know how about PS in new patch are..

the way u whine u are not discussing about pike, you are just cant accept the fact that a pike can own a knight anytime...and fyi if u think why i am siding pike cos i'm a pike, u got me wrong..I am a Fighter and what is good about fighter and knight is that they can fight and kills with 1handed..

And Pike always being OP eversince EPT, So don't be Supprise

 

u said ... whine??

i am said that i cant accept any show PS can own KS??

or am i talking u are PS??

 

i discuss on the way new patch will make to

 

i compare 7hit KS becos it's same skill

if 7hit miss a few it's dangerous

u can saw it in Darklink64 clip

[MilkTea 0]

Dp and sm same skill? Lol yrah thry both have 7 hits atk but u cant expect dp to have same crit and atr as sm right?

[DarkLink64 921]

Qman is right.

 

Knight Devine Piercing have: 0% added critical, 0% added Atk Rating, 70% Atk Damage.

PS: Divine Piercing land every hit individualy

 

Pike Shadow master have: Almost 100% critical ratio (Assassin Eye, Critical Mastery), 50% Atk Rating, 80% Atk Damage.

PS: Shadow Master have 4 hits on skill animation, the 3 first hit strikes twice

 

In overall, Shadow Master by itself is far superior from Devine Piercing (double hitting on a single hit animation), now i really can't see any point making WAY stronger than Devine Piercing.

 

 

 

Also i disagree on other changes. Pike is a class that do EVERYTHING, really. Gogg said quite well, people that know how to play Pike, can be a pain in the ass to beat.

 

Do Pike have AoE slow? Yes, Ground Pike

Do Pike have big AoE Range and Damage? Yes, Tornado

Do Pike have debuff on enemys? Yes, Assassin eye (shutdown enemy critical)

Do Pike have the strongest 1 hit skill? Yes, Jumping Crash

Do Pike have good defenses? Hell yes, best HP formula, Defensive Weapon Mastery (that add insane block rate and also works with 1 handed scythes and shields), Vague (Oh Evade... Evade is Evade.)

Do Pike have the strongest spammable skill? Hell yes, Chain Lance with it's freaking fast 3 hits with 66% added damage (plus skyhigh critical rate)

Do Pike have the strongest skill in the entire game? Hellest hell yes, Charged Strike with Assassin Eye and Vanish on slowed Enemy

Do Pike have added Attack Rating on some usefull skill? No, he have 50% of Increased Atk Rating on EVERY SKILL. EVERY. Also it's a PASSIVE, not even an active.

Do Pike have good buffs? Yes, Assassin Eye, Vanish and Vague - by far the best buffs in the entire game. They stack with each other: Hell yeah!

Do Pike have good passive buffs? Yes, the best ones by far in the game: Insane Block Ratio, Insane Critical Rate, 50% permanently added ATK Rating

Do Pike become 100% invisible? Not ATM, but will be, so Yes!

Do Pike have good damage? Yes, the strongest Damage on the game (MAX damage and insane critical ratio)

 

 

Also Berserk changes on Fighter are quite unfair.

 

Fighter already do high damage, have Added ATK rating, Added Critical Hit and 95% Added Damage on his main Skill, also Added Critical on his killer skill (Destroyer)

 

180 ATK Damage and ONLY 30 lost ABS?

 

 

 

 

What do Pike Lack now? If you want to add Ice Meteorite as one of his skill list, and increase MP formula, feel free to do it.

 

 

[MilkTea 0]

Gogogo class chg to pike or fighter

[Electron 0]

Prepatch Pikeman was worthless in PvP, my full geared pikeman could not match anyone in PvP of fair level

 

I've just tested the new patch, a 1x1 match with no lag involved (I don't take lag into consideration when making balances, as some here seem to do)

140 pikeman full gear (throne set) vs 136 fighter full gear (tulla set)

 

Now it's pretty balanced, Pikeman does fair damage, defend is weak (weaker than fighter, mechanician, knight, as it is supposed to be), 1/4 hit chance to KO (almost just like fighter)

 

The only thing what could be looked at is if Weapon Defense Mastery also works on 1-hand, since it's not supposed to be, and perhaps some small cooldown tweaking, but that's it.

 

Definitely not OP

[-BLiiND- 0]

Prepatch Pikeman was worthless in PvP, my full geared pikeman could not match anyone in PvP of fair level

 

I've just tested the new patch, a 1x1 match with no lag involved (I don't take lag into consideration when making balances, as some here seem to do)

140 pikeman full gear (throne set) vs 136 fighter full gear (tulla set)

 

Now it's pretty balanced, Pikeman does fair damage, defend is weak (weaker than fighter, mechanician, knight, as it is supposed to be), 1/4 hit chance to KO (almost just like fighter)

 

The only thing what could be looked at is if Weapon Defense Mastery also works on 1-hand, since it's not supposed to be, and perhaps some small cooldown tweaking, but that's it.

 

Definitely not OP

 

thats its because you are without lag.. considering that the server is flooded with laggers its pretty well imbalance as you can see in the ladder how pikeman rise from crap.. and ingame new patch + lag just an insult to everyone.. nerf it a bit would make it balance and less abusive to those laggers.. and you know that lagging are the best issues ingame now

[Zero 0]

Prepatch Pikeman was worthless in PvP, my full geared pikeman could not match anyone in PvP of fair level

 

I've just tested the new patch, a 1x1 match with no lag involved (I don't take lag into consideration when making balances, as some here seem to do)

140 pikeman full gear (throne set) vs 136 fighter full gear (tulla set)

 

Now it's pretty balanced, Pikeman does fair damage, defend is weak (weaker than fighter, mechanician, knight, as it is supposed to be), 1/4 hit chance to KO (almost just like fighter)

 

The only thing what could be looked at is if Weapon Defense Mastery also works on 1-hand, since it's not supposed to be, and perhaps some small cooldown tweaking, but that's it.

 

Definitely not OP

 

thats its because you are without lag.. considering that the server is flooded with laggers its pretty well imbalance as you can see in the ladder how pikeman rise from crap.. and ingame new patch + lag just an insult to everyone.. nerf it a bit would make it balance and less abusive to those laggers.. and you know that lagging are the best issues ingame now

 

Lagging has NOTHING to do with class balance. If one class can lag, then so can another and any class is broken with lag abuse. Whether its an archer, mech, knight, pikeman, it doesn't matter, they're all going to be immortal or causing invisible one shots.

[DarkLink64 921]

Ok Wartale, but, Knight Devine Piercing is SubPar of Shadow Mastery.

 

Due to double striking on 3 hits out of 4, this make Shadow Mastery far better than Devine Piercing. Also Pike have passive boosted Attack Rating on everything, including Shadow Master, also increased critical damage (at quite high values)

 

Why should Devine Piercing, a skill that do not land any kind of double strike, that do not have ATK rating, do not have critical, should be weaker than Shadow Mastery?

 

In my point of view, DP and SM should have the same damage, like always, or even more damage than Shadow Master, because of it's clear subparing (disvantage on something that works almost the same)

 

Either DP 80% dmg and SM 80% dmg, or DP 70% dmg and SM 70% dmg or DP with a little more damage over SM.

 

 

Also regarding Fighter Berserk. Don't you think 180 ATK damage with only 30 ABS reduction? I think it should reduce a little more ABS, 40~50, but also keeping Berserker Lower Level with 120 ATK DMG with 30 or less ABS reduction

[Zero 0]

Pike/FS excel at power, something is wrong if knight is on par with them, like if a knight was on par with tankmech. It's fine because they're not supposed to be equal.

[4EvaLegend 0]

Qman is right.

 

Knight Devine Piercing have: 0% added critical, 0% added Atk Rating, 70% Atk Damage.

PS: Divine Piercing land every hit individualy

 

Pike Shadow master have: Almost 100% critical ratio (Assassin Eye, Critical Mastery), 50% Atk Rating, 80% Atk Damage.

PS: Shadow Master have 4 hits on skill animation, the 3 first hit strikes twice

 

In overall, Shadow Master by itself is far superior from Devine Piercing (double hitting on a single hit animation), now i really can't see any point making WAY stronger than Devine Piercing.

 

 

 

Also i disagree on other changes. Pike is a class that do EVERYTHING, really. Gogg said quite well, people that know how to play Pike, can be a pain in the ass to beat.

 

Do Pike have AoE slow? Yes, Ground Pike

Do Pike have big AoE Range and Damage? Yes, Tornado

Do Pike have debuff on enemys? Yes, Assassin eye (shutdown enemy critical)

Do Pike have the strongest 1 hit skill? Yes, Jumping Crash

Do Pike have good defenses? Hell yes, best HP formula, Defensive Weapon Mastery (that add insane block rate and also works with 1 handed scythes and shields), Vague (Oh Evade... Evade is Evade.)

Do Pike have the strongest spammable skill? Hell yes, Chain Lance with it's freaking fast 3 hits with 66% added damage (plus skyhigh critical rate)

Do Pike have the strongest skill in the entire game? Hellest hell yes, Charged Strike with Assassin Eye and Vanish on slowed Enemy

Do Pike have added Attack Rating on some usefull skill? No, he have 50% of Increased Atk Rating on EVERY SKILL. EVERY. Also it's a PASSIVE, not even an active.

Do Pike have good buffs? Yes, Assassin Eye, Vanish and Vague - by far the best buffs in the entire game. They stack with each other: Hell yeah!

Do Pike have good passive buffs? Yes, the best ones by far in the game: Insane Block Ratio, Insane Critical Rate, 50% permanently added ATK Rating

Do Pike become 100% invisible? Not ATM, but will be, so Yes!

Do Pike have good damage? Yes, the strongest Damage on the game (MAX damage and insane critical ratio)

 

 

Also Berserk changes on Fighter are quite unfair.

 

Fighter already do high damage, have Added ATK rating, Added Critical Hit and 95% Added Damage on his main Skill, also Added Critical on his killer skill (Destroyer)

 

180 ATK Damage and ONLY 30 lost ABS?

 

 

 

 

What do Pike Lack now? If you want to add Ice Meteorite as one of his skill list, and increase MP formula, feel free to do it.

Dude your not being fair at all. Your only listing the good stuff.

Why don't you list the part where other character beats pike. You know,

PRS > pike sod

Knight > pike hunting / tanking in bc

Why don't i see you listing any of those?

Next time make sure to list the bad thing. Not just the good thing, If you want I can list a lot more things I can with a knight then a pike. So stop whining GM know how to balance.

 

[DarkLink64 921]

To be honest, i can't see something bad. Unlike the fact that Pike does not have an PET (atm, maybe with shadow clone)

 

Furthemore, i'm not complaining or whining. I would if PD was still 55% and SM 80%. What i can't understand is _why_ a superior skill by itself should have more damage than an inferior one?

 

It doesn't matter if Knight have X Y Z, because Pike do also have X Y Z.

 

Also it isn't a matter if they SHOULD be equally, just common sense. People complain that Knights are the hell out OP, But, what do you think when some Pike use Shadow Master on you?

 

160% + 160% + 160% + 80% damage, its how Shadow Master works.

 

If people complain Knight Grand Cross that is 80% + 80%, what about a double striking with increased ATK RTG and insane Critical Ratio?

 

Something is wrong, dont ya think?

[Setsuna 0]

what about knights having Gods Bless, Sword Mastery and other damage boost skills against Undeads (Holy Valor and Undead Bane).

You make it sound like Knights have no Buffs at all.

Of course his Undead Skills wont matter in PvP but PvP isnt all that matters.

[DarkLink64 921]

what about knights having Gods Bless, Sword Mastery and other damage boost skills against Undeads (Holy Valor and Undead Bane).

You make it sound like Knights have no Buffs at all.

Of course his Undead Skills wont matter in PvP but PvP isnt all that matters.

 

I'm not saying that Knight's buffs are bad. I've stated that Pike buffs are BY FAR the best into the game. You should do proper reading.

 

And what Knight excels, as you said, is against Undead, what Pike excels is against everything. You can use your insane Critical/Block/Evade and Freeze and Critical Reduction against everything.

 

As i've said, the one thing what pike is lacking is a summoned Pet. You can solve it by crystals, also i think Shadow Clone will be his pet.

 

So, consider Shadow Clone as a pet, you'll get a complet class that have the fastest pot animation

 

 

[cyclonewind 0]

discussion end \

gogo class change to PS  ;D

[QMan 0]

Prepatch Pikeman was worthless in PvP, my full geared pikeman could not match anyone in PvP of fair level

 

I've just tested the new patch, a 1x1 match with no lag involved (I don't take lag into consideration when making balances, as some here seem to do)

140 pikeman full gear (throne set) vs 136 fighter full gear (tulla set)

 

Now it's pretty balanced, Pikeman does fair damage, defend is weak (weaker than fighter, mechanician, knight, as it is supposed to be), 1/4 hit chance to KO (almost just like fighter)

 

The only thing what could be looked at is if Weapon Defense Mastery also works on 1-hand, since it's not supposed to be, and perhaps some small cooldown tweaking, but that's it.

 

Definitely not OP

 

no if u test with AAAVVV fighter

i see it as u in BC at the sametime

( i remember something like that "1/4 hit chance to KO")

 

 

reason is

1.no FS use 1 hand weapon while PS can use 2 hand

  it's will diff if FS use 2 hand FS will die easy

  and with 1 hand without high level and full gear hard to kill

2.FS high level with full gear have a highest HP

  with 1 CS other class not same FS class(can be die easy)

  then -> CS will OP with another class except FS??

3.PS and FS have highest formula HP

  if u test only this 2 class

  only FS&PS will got maximum dmg that only 2 class can survive

 

thx for make new balance patch and try to test it for all

 

 

[Setsuna 0]

You shouldn't forget that Axes are stronger than most other weapons including scythes. The new lvl 122 1hand Axe's average damage is as strong as the lvl 120 2hand scythe except of a little lower crit chance.

 

Edit: I must admit that i dont know much about pvp in this game cause i dont have any high lvl chars that stand a chance there. Max Damage is probably more important in PvP and scythes have the highest max damage.

The problem i see is, that its hard to balance Pikes in PvP without making them too weak in hunting. Thats because Pikes have a lot of skills that favour them in PvP, like stealth, debuffs like AE and Venom Spear(not sure how good the last one is in PvP), as well as attack skills like CS which has to be charged up but deals a lot of damage in a short amount of time. All these skills are great for preparing a strong attack that deals a lot of damage in just 1-2 seconds. But in PvE its more about doing constantly high damage, which makes these skills less attractive.

[DarkLink64 921]

You shouldn't forget that Axes are stronger than most other weapons including scythes. The new lvl 122 1hand Axe's average damage is as strong as the lvl 120 2hand scythe except of a little lower crit chance.

 

That's something that I ASSUME i'm whining and complaining.

 

Item Weapon Imbalance.

 

I mean, i do NOT want all weapons to have the same characteristics - but i want they have the SAME total aumont, distributed differently to every kind of item.

 

Axes and Hammers have MUCH more TOTAL Attack Power than Swords and Scythers.

 

140/6 = 23

 

120 Sword -> 96-114, total 210 (233)

120 Scyther -> 73-134, total 207 (230)

 

and look the insane difference against Axe/Hammers

 

140/7 = 20

 

120 Axe -> 109-121, total 230 (250)

120 Hammer -> 97-128, total 225 (245)

 

If you can compare 2H 120 Sword/Scyther against a 1H 122 Axe or Hammer, look what we'll get:

 

122 1 hand Axe -> 92-115, total 207 (227)

122 1 hand Hammer -> 84-117, 201 (221)

 

So, a Fighter or Mechanician with a 1 hand Axe have almost the SAME ATK DAMAGE than a Knight or Pike with 2 hand weapons.

 

 

That's just ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

[Gogg 3]

Knights are not supposed to be compared to pikes on PvP. Obviously pikes must damage way better than them, I don't understand the complains about that.

[[D]ohkito 2]

Want discuss about weapons ?

 

Wand 122: 60-66. No critical, no atr/lv. The spec=useless.

 

I wouldn't complain about it.

[MilkTea 0]

Fighter are mean to have higher dmg, lets not talk about skill.

[Gogg 3]

Wait wait wait...

 

A mech with 1h got almost the same damage of a knight with 2h sword?

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Not even close to be the same using a 2h hammer, but with a 1h weapon it is? LOL

 

Mechs got less damage, fighters got less tanking, and you're crying over weapons?

Quit your bullshit. Knights are already way too good, they don't need and don't deserve even the slightest boost.

 

 

Ridiculous is this whine.

[MilkTea 0]

I dun see why is the point of whining it around, like i said go class change as u like if u think that class is op, stop crying for gm to increase ur current class skills dmg etc when x class pwnt u, pike have evade skills, fighter have berserks skill to add dmg, knight have godbless to add dmg, and also def and block skills, and even can convert undead mobs to ur pet, so far i think it quite balance for me as for now, u cant expect that knight used to be op and it gotna be number 1 all time, now that they just improve pike skill and so many knight are crying about it

[Zero 0]

Knights are not supposed to be compared to pikes on PvP. Obviously pikes must damage way better than them, I don't understand the complains about that.

 

Said the same thing a page ago and he ignored it or didn't see. People need to get it out of their heads balance doesn't mean exact SAME, it just means comparatively overall they are equal.

[Gogg 3]

I'm glad someone with some sense of balance got access to staff boards to enlight them a bit.

 

More depressing than watching all the crap baseless whine about balancing on forums is watching all their complainments becoming true with nonsense patches.