Weapon Status Imbalance

[DarkLink64 921]

I want to remind Wartale, something that i've said to him and Davv, some time before.

 

I know it should be hard, but... Not impossible. I think to apply this fix, someone need to create an script that change every item status on the game database.

 

 

It's a constant war about Character Balance. But, what i'm always trying to say and point out, before changing or modifying a class, the whole system and formula should be balanced.

 

And this go for Weapon Status. How we can balance a class if their Weapons aren't? Don't you agree with me:

 

Balancing the characters shouldn't be more easier and quicker if the weapons and itens that they use are already balanced?

 

That's what i think, and that's what i believe.

 

Weapons aren't fairly balanced. They're very FAR from reaching balance. Thus, making character balance more and more problematic. First, i do NOT want to make every weapon have the same Min/Max ATK pow, ATK RTG, etc. No. All i want is to make every weapon to have the same total aumont of status, distributed differently for each item.

 

 

I do believe each class should be different, but not unbalanced. Thats why strenghts and weakness exists, and with this concept i'll show what i do believe that happens in the game.

 

 

I'll grade a weapon performance from 0 (minimum ATK damage) to 5 (Maximum ATK damage) on each category, Min and Max.

 

Main weapons on the game (120 2 Handed Weapons)

 

Sword - Min=3 Max=2

Scyther - Min=0, Max =5

Axe - Min=5, Max=3

Hammer - Min = 4, Max = 4

 

 

As you can see, Axes and Hammers excels by far Swords and Scythers. When Swords and Scythers have 5, Axes and Hammers have 8.

 

If you dont believe:

 

140/6 = 23

 

120 Sword -> 96-114, total 210 (233)

120 Scyther -> 73-134, total 207 (230)

____

 

140/7 = 20

 

120 Axe -> 109-121, total 230 (250)

120 Hammer -> 97-128, total 225 (245)

 

 

People may complain: "But Swords and Scythers get critical on Aging!"

 

But i'll say. Axes and Hammers get 20 ATK RTG against 10 ATK RTG on Swords and Scythers.

 

Also, to Pikes and Knights: What you want:

 

30 more WEAPON ATK Damage or

10% more Critical?

 

Don't forget that Fighters have increased Critical on his skills, and Mech have the highest Weapon DMG increase by their passive.

 

 

What i think that should be done (and already happen on lower level itens):

 

Sword - Min=5, Max=0

Scyther -Min=0, Max=5

Axe - Min=1, Max=4

Hammer - Min=2, Max=3

 

So, or lower Axe and Hammers total Weapon ATK Dmg, or increase Scyther and Sword total Weapon ATK Dmg. Honestly i preffer lowering, to not break with non-melee classes.

 

 

Also i do not forget about others status on the weapons.

 

 

Axes have total 8 speed, while they were first designed to have 7. Swift axe was a skill to balance everything out, but now, Fighters strikes quicker than everyone else, while Pike, Knight and Mech.

 

Also i do want to balance Critical Rate and Blocking.

 

Sword - Crit=5, Blk=3

Scyther - Crit=2, Blk=6

Axe - Crit=3, blk=5

Hammer - Crit=4, blk=4

 

 

As you can think, Hammers should be the all around weapon, with balanced min/max atk dmg and critical and block.

 

 

Please discuss.

 

 

 

[Gogg 3]

Stupidity.

 

Different weapons to suit different classes with different skills. There's nothing wrong with them.

[Geovane 78]

Stupidity.

 

Different weapons to suit different classes with different skills. There's nothing wrong with them.

+1

[KITTYAN2 0]

Lol you're just talking about weapons, and you're forgeting the defense items and ABS, DEFENSE, REFLECTION. Just keep an eye on it man .

[stfu 0]

da fuk is this topic

 

next u'll say archers have low dmg because of low wpn atk power on bows

 

/facepalm

[[D]ohkito 2]

Another fail:

 

Didn't ''compared'' wand/staff. Is this not a weapon too ?  ???

[MilkTea 0]

Stupidity.

 

Different weapons to suit different classes with different skills. There's nothing wrong with them.

well said, i agree with u

[MilkTea 0]

I think its not about the weapon dmg, ata and archer weapon dmg is much lower than axe sword scythe and hammer but u can see archer and ata can kill fast and hurts, why? If u wanna talk about axe weapon dmg, dun u all agree fighter is mean for higher dmg, and axe from spd 7 to spd 8 i believe not only rpt exist i believe ept and other server axe is spd 8 now.. Still the same old shit i wanna say is if u think the class is op or the weapon is op, u can go class change anytime u want

[DarkLink64 921]

I do not play competitively with Priestes/Mage/Atalanta or Archer. That's why i didn't talked nothing about them.

[DarkLink64 921]

Stupidity.

 

Different weapons to suit different classes with different skills. There's nothing wrong with them.

well said, i agree with u

 

What stupid is this kind of comment.

 

 

I think you didnt read the whole thread. To be honest you did this comment only because you're a Axe/Hammer user.

 

 

Do you think it's fair a 1 Handed Axe have the same total Weapon Damage than a 2 handed Scyther?

 

 

Oh, it's a failure!!

 

Look!

 

122 1 hand Axe -> 92-115, total 207 (227)

122 1 hand Hammer -> 84-117, 201 (221)

 

 

Do you think a 1 handed Axe should have the same power level of 120 Scyther and almost 120 Sword?

 

So, what's the difference you're pointing out? I've said and showed, all weapons should have DIFFERENT status, but with the SAME total aumont.

 

Give your args, hater. Stupidity is the content of your post.

 

 

[Zero 0]

You forgot a very important thing... SKILLS. It doesn't matter if you're weapon has 10 more damage if the other classes has a 10%+ boost on their skills, that > weapon differences. Balancing weapons at this point is just pointless.

 

Ya, maybe a mech can have the same damage or more on their weapon, but are they throwing 120%+ skills around like a pike/fs? No.

[Gogg 3]

Just to conclude before the usual flamming against me saying I'm a hater, that I don't like anything and all that similar crap some people like to say.

 

Weapons are different, to suit different classes and skills. Meele weapons, that you describe, are pretty fine and it's absolutelly nonsense modifying it.

 

You ask pikes and knights what they'd prefer.

First, lol, do it right. Weapons with no critical add by aging gain 10 attack rating each aging level, not 20, and the others gain 5, not 10. In the end they get 200 atk rate, just 100 more than swords or scythes.

And please, do your math right. Comparing swords to axes and hammers, axes got 20 total attack power points more than swords, and hammers got 15, it was never 30 as you mentioned. Counting with spec would be even less.

And you come to ask if people would like that damage over 10% critical? LOL it's not even just 10% and you know that, it's way more. You're distorting the values, increasing the damage gap and decreasing the critical one.

But to your question, I got an easy answer. Mechs can use all meele weapons the same way. By your logic they should be all using axes, but what's the most common weapon among high level mechs? SWORDS!

 

Again, you try to make the "problem" (as it seems it's just you who can ckassify that as problem) bigger than it is. Axes were first developed as 7 attack speed weapons, but Swift Axe was also designed as 16% atrack speed boost, now it's 8%. So they had 8.12 attack speed, now 8.36. Not so big, as you try to make it look.

 

Now, about your critical/block balance idea: I just don't like it.

[Gogg 3]

I was not fast enough, simple minded people already strike against me.

[DarkLink64 921]

You forgot a very important thing... SKILLS. It doesn't matter if you're weapon has 10 more damage if the other classes has a 10%+ boost on their skills, that > weapon differences. Balancing weapons at this point is just pointless.

 

Ya, maybe a mech can have the same damage or more on their weapon, but are they throwing 120%+ skills around like a pike/fs? No.

 

Oh, so, do you preffer balancing skills without having the entire game formula/itens balanced?

 

Or do you think the skills are balanced? Well, i don't. Skills aren't balanced, neither the items. So, don't you thinkg balacing the items should make skill balancing easier?

 

Also, a 1Handed AXE can reach the SAME power level of 120 Scythe.

 

Do you think it's a balanced fight, a Fighter with 1 hand with 95% added ATK dmg, 15% added critical, % added ATK Rating, with 9 ATK speed, using a SHIELD, with 180 ATK DMG increased, against Pike/Knight with 2 hands? Neither Pike or Knight can outdamage with 1 hands, and are tied up with 2 hands. "Oh, Balance the weapons? Bullshit!"

 

Axe and Hammers are by far stronger than Swords and Scythers. This imbalance result into this: 1 Handed weapon reaching the same power level of a 120 2handed weapon?

 

Where's the sense here?

 

That's bs in my point of view, Mechanics and Fighters using 1 Hand Axe with same WEAPON ATK POW than Swords and Scythers?

 

 

[Gogg 3]

Ow, so, to help the entire balance we should make swords and scythes have better damage?

 

Interesting, the biggest complainments of all times are OP knights and backstabbing hitkill pikes and you want to start the balance by making their weapons better compared to all others?

 

You're a trully genious.

[DarkLink64 921]

Ow, so, to help the entire balance we should make swords and scythes have better damage?

 

I've said, lower the damage of Axes and Hammers. You didn't read, that's why you're posting BS.

 

Interesting, the biggest complainments of all times are OP knights and backstabbing hitkill pikes and you want to start the balance by making their weapons better compared to all others?

 

You're a trully genious.

 

You're the trully genius here. Didn't read the thread, also sayng bs about swift axe. 8+8% = 0,64 so, a Fighter indeed have 9 ATK speed because the game round up every floating point.

 

I think you need something to calm your down:

 

[Gogg 3]

Sure, keep going with this. I see a lot of people agree with that.

[Zero 0]

It's hard to argue with someone who only sees things through a knight point of view. Half the stuff you ever mention is rooted in how terribly bias you are with knight, and not being able to see anything but comparing your weakness to the strength of another class. Most of the complaints here suggest knight is OP if anything, and it is.

 

Knight was actually my main character on ePT, and I leveled through the high 80s with no help when you could still count the number of 9xs on the server with just your hands. Needless to say, I got tons of experience with KS and how it is supposed to play. I don't know how knight got to be what it was here, but that is FAR from anything it ever was. If you've ever heard the phrase "jack of all trades, master of none", this was KS in a nutshell. Ks is supposed to be about 3rd to 5th in every category, not bad but at anything but not great at it either.

 

KS here has given you the impression that you're supposed to AoE like a prs, kill like a pike/fs and then tank like a mech. That is simply wrong, knight is not supposed to be on par with the best of any class in any category. Pike/FS should clearly have the advantage over you in PvP, mech should far out tank you, and prs/mage shouldn't even be a contest with AoE. The advantage is while the FS may have the advantage for killing you in PvP, you don't have to go stick with a horrible PvE for leveling, that is when you're better. You may not AoE in exping like a prs either, but then you don't have to have atrocious 1 v 1, that is when you're better than them.

 

KS is far too strong and this weapon balance idea just comes from the fact that you actually think it's weak, when it is very strong.

[DarkLink64 921]

blah blah useless offtopic blah blah blah

 

 

Sorry bro, i didn't mentioned Knight on my thread. My thread says about Weapon Status Imbalance, NOT about  Character Skill Imbalance. However, IMO, Weapon Status Imbalance stick with Charater Imbalance, but i'm not talking about char X is good, but my char Y is weak. You have plenty of threads about character imbalance out there, be free to post these user direct non-sense post.

 

I'm talking about WEAPON Imbalance. I'm talking about my view on how wapons are imbalanced, and suggesting on how they should be, with same total numbers, but distributed differently for each other, to improve overall character balancing.

 

 

If you can find my bias or arguing about Knight here, be a man and point me out. I've mentioned more abut Scythes being so weak, to the point a 122 1 Hand Axe reach the same Weapon ATK Power. Do Knights use scythes? Oh, since when? What, that was a joke? Hahaha, but you got me, i'm laughing so hard.

 

My char is a Knight (leveled from 0) but i do also own a Pike, a Mechanician, and i play on a friend Fighter. I do play (only to EXP) with Priestess and Mage also.

 

I'm amused on how you can lead any kind of thread to off topic. I think the subject of my thread is Weapon Status Imbalance, Axe and Hammer having way more Weapon ATK Damage than Scythes and Swords.

 

I can't see any subject like, my character, my knight point of view of something, AoE skill, priest, if i think Knight is weak, blah blah blah.

 

Stick with thread subject, can i ask?

 

If I wasn't using a Knight Avatar, i have no doubt that this useless answer to your useless offtopic post shouldn't needed to exist.

 

[suesue 234]

Stop making all chars are same~

[DarkLink64 921]

Hey Zero, don't make me waiting. C'mon! Show my bias, my knight pov, etc etc etc. You were so strong talking about it on my Weapon Status Imbalance, but don't be a coward, making me waiting.

 

If i change my avatar and my ingame character nick to my Pike one,would you change your whole crap to something else more usefull, or just switch "knight" for "pike"?

 

I know u can do it.

[DarkLink64 921]

Stop making all chars are same~

 

Youre saying,

 

"Stop making my char weaker to be balanced with the rest"?

 

Character Balance =/= Cloning Character

[Zero 0]

Stop making all chars are same~

 

This ^. No one wants to play 8 versions of the same thing, which is where all your ideas lead and we debated this on a different thread. Your in complete denial that this is what you're really asking for.

 

Again, what use is balancing weapons when you throw skills into the balance? So what if a pike gets lower attack on their weapon? You sit here q.qing about AC when CL hits THREE times at 66%. Also complaining FS got the 15% crit on AC? Ya, thats PASSIVE on pike. This is excluding things like assassin eye and vanish as well.

 

Perhaps you're not bias, but if you're not, then I with many other people are wondering what you're smoking. All your ideas look at the narrowest possible viewpoint of a situation, exclude all the variables they're intertwined with, then make a simple conclusion to a much larger problem.

 

Sure, go balance your weapons, then we have to go doing even more balancing to skills. Things get nerfed, ppl q.q, and it's a huge mess to end up with the equivalent of where you started. Pointless work isn't something we need to be adding. Weapon imbalances are also very costly to the whole server, since they aren't automatically updated, you either have to find or buy a new one. Only severe imbalances need to be corrected on weapons because of this issue, such as the orbs vs shields and the bow vs other 2h problem.

 

 

[Crius 0]

Considering that your actual damage is for the most part based on the speed, number of hits, and base damage bonus of whatever skills you have, the weapons themselves are not all that important to balance. For the sake of skill balance, it'd be far more interesting to compare the base damage of each class than the weapons they happen to be using. Apart from the mech, most classes are stuck using a single weapon type anyway, so it's not like perfect balance between them is really needed unless we stop relying so much on skills.

[Guest BloodBrothers]

Stupidity.

 

Different weapons to suit different classes with different skills. There's nothing wrong with them.

+1

+1