What's wrong with this server?

[-Kali- 0]

14 minutes ago, royalpt said:

oh, for sure it has been changed! i can tell, compared to the time that  sever was re-opened,  magician is much weak now!   sad~~~

 

 

 

Do you notice any difference now?

[royalpt 14]

Just now, -Kali- said:

 

Do you notice any difference now?

I didn't log on yet! will see

[TrapHouse 102]

2 hours ago, royalpt said:

I didn't log on yet! will see

 

Let me know what you think.

[heoantap 21]

mage improves:

Death Ray +33% atk rating, damage multiplier increased.

Spirit Elemental's damage multiplier increased (not as much as original i think? Still a good thing).

Energy Shield still works when you are out of mana.

Amplify the same, no final damage 1vs1 added (I have a question: does Amplify's atk rating boost applies to Stone Spike too? Since it can miss now).

 

Not test in SL yet, dont have time.

CT3 still the same, only 2kk each run.

 

Will test on SL mobs with my mage and leave feedback when I have time

Thank you to the team who listened to player's comment.

Edited June 13, 2017 by heoantap

[TrapHouse 102]

Death Ray is back to 75% damage boost, which is what it was before the initial big nerf on the June 7th patch. It now also has +33% Attack Rating boost at level 10.

Spirit Elemental is back to 74% damage boost, which is what it was before the initial big nerf on the June 7th patch.

Amplify had its +118% 1on1 final damage boost removed. It had its +86% Weapon Attack Rating increased to +130%.

Stone Spikes' damage boost is still 71%, it did not change. Right now it deals 75% total damage in PvP, and 100% total damage in PvE. It will be changed to 100% and 100% in tomorrows patch. Stone Spike now also has to ability to miss against characters and monsters.

 

 

[TrapHouse 102]

25 minutes ago, heoantap said:

(I have a question: does Amplify's atk rating boost applies to Stone Spike too? Since it can miss now).

Yes, it is factored into the formula. Amplify is a passive skill, meaning it automatically adds to you're total Attack Rating when you press C. And Stone Spike hit ratio depends upon you're total attack rating vs the character/monster you are using it against.

Edited June 13, 2017 by TrapHouse

[TrapHouse 102]

17 hours ago, flouks said:

 And another, trine shield does not work as it should, reducing 50% damage that Grand Smash would give, I was a mechanic and I have friends who say the same, use Trine Shield to have a better tank and kill normal, as if it had not 50% Damage reduction with Grand Smash.

 

Trine Shield is working as intended. I tested in game, and it does reduce Grans Smash damage by 50% when Trine Shield is active.

[Bills 2]

I test mage yesterday. 20 ray of death and only 4 hit the opponent. Tell me, which class in the game needs 20 skils and only 4 takes damage?

[flouks 41]

On 2017-6-12 at 11:39 PM, TrapHouse said:

 

Trine Shield está funcionando como pretendido. Testei no jogo, e reduz o dano de Grans Smash em 50% quando o Trine Shield está ativo.

So why when I use Trine Shield can I kill like I'm not wearing it? You may not know how to test.

 

Test again, go PvP... enter in War with trine shield or 1x1..... 

 

 

i will take video later, and post here... 

Edited June 15, 2017 by flouks

[-Sukon- 112]

On 2017-6-11 at 1:42 PM, Wartale said:

We're happy to hear the gold value is increasing, that's exactly what we wanted. We're constantly working hard to make sure Wartale is not a pay-to-win game. We want every player to be able to afford premium items (not just players who can donate). Keeping gold valuable is the way to do it right. Keep in mind also that gold cannot be purchased through Coin Shop.

 

Also, we don't understand how making 100kk in 1 hour seemed normal to anyone. We still remember a time when 20-30kk in 1 hour was considered great.

 

As for classes, we're still tweaking them, sorry if we didn't get it right immediately... 

For me, without ct3 to ppl farm, it increase the rate of donation, because the players can't have gold to buy anything without donate.

So it's a PAY-TO-WIN 100% Now, cause u cant have even gold playing, imagine coins. =]

Edited June 15, 2017 by -Sukon-

[- D E A T H S T R O K E - 1,760]

You could still farm gold in ct3,it was changed back

[-Sukon- 112]

1 minute ago, - D E A T H S T R O K E - said:

You could still farm gold in ct3,it was changed back

Is it the same again now ?

 

Imagine, i often saw new players asking, "How can i get gold in this server?

We, old players can't even reply to this, if ct3 get nerf.

Make 9kk in 16-17 min of SOD, is not exciting.

And also u won't be rich doing this, only way to make gold in Sod, is 24/7 doing this, and sometimes u can lose your time being eliminated in early rounds.

[-Sukon- 112]

On 2017-6-13 at 9:27 AM, Bills said:

I test mage yesterday. 20 ray of death and only 4 hit the opponent. Tell me, which class in the game needs 20 skils and only 4 takes damage?

Mage was annoying for who play BC, it's good now, as the old times mage is in xp map =]

[Support 4,323]

The game is not pay-to-win at all, I've managed to do 15kk in Bellatra with a level 136 archer without having anyone tanking the monsters for me. There are tons of ways to farm gold, people just do one that is extremely overpowered and think immediately that's the only way that ever existed to farm gold. How about doing Bellatra, even if  you only reach until Round 3 you still profit from the gold you invested to enter, so that's a win already. If you reach until the end, you can exchange your monster souls for plenty of rarities which is another extra gold. If that's not enough, participate in Hell's Gate every day, more chances of obtaining more rarities.

The only difference is that people actually have to invest time in the game to get good, unlike before where it just took a few hours to get enough gold to become top geared, which is not how it is supposed to work in any game.

 

For instance, would you pay 60$ for GTA V if it only had 2 missions? No, nobody would. And this game is free, you don't have to pay to play it.

The more time you invest playing, the more you will enjoy it. That's what I call a good game.

[-Sukon- 112]

1 hour ago, Support said:

The game is not pay-to-win at all, I've managed to do 15kk in Bellatra with a level 136 archer without having anyone tanking the monsters for me. There are tons of ways to farm gold, people just do one that is extremely overpowered and think immediately that's the only way that ever existed to farm gold. How about doing Bellatra, even if  you only reach until Round 3 you still profit from the gold you invested to enter, so that's a win already. If you reach until the end, you can exchange your monster souls for plenty of rarities which is another extra gold. If that's not enough, participate in Hell's Gate every day, more chances of obtaining more rarities.

The only difference is that people actually have to invest time in the game to get good, unlike before where it just took a few hours to get enough gold to become top geared, which is not how it is supposed to work in any game.

 

For instance, would you pay 60$ for GTA V if it only had 2 missions? No, nobody would. And this game is free, you don't have to pay to play it.

The more time you invest playing, the more you will enjoy it. That's what I call a good game.

 

Players want to play game in certainty. I Mean, no one want to stay 5 hours waiting to HG to get nothing from this. I play this server for years and i dont get anything good from HG. I cant wait from HG to get good geared or something like that, the other is bellatra, change monster souls in inferna/enigma force will not make anyone rich.

The reality, is that players found a good way to farm gold, to get high lv equips, and high lvl chars, and staff just think about nerf it. What u guys should need to do (In My opinion), is check Ct3 HS in all servers like a patrol to see if is anyone using autopot/autoclick and anything like that. 

Dont need to remove the Farm from ct3, this helps alot...!

[TrapHouse 102]

41 minutes ago, flouks said:

So why when I use Trine Shield can I kill like I'm not wearing it? You may not know how to test.

 

Test again, go PvP... enter in War with trine shield or 1x1..... 

 

 

i will take video later, and post here... 

 

Are you serious? ....the skill is working as intended. Believe me. I actually tested it with/against GM-Photon if you must know.

 

*Edit, he can see more detailed information as regards to damage then you can. Trine Shield is working 100% as intended to be.

Edited June 15, 2017 by TrapHouse

[runjhhz 22]

Thanks for keep updating the balance and also testing it! Keep up the good work

[TrapHouse 102]

1 hour ago, flouks said:

So why when I use Trine Shield can I kill like I'm not wearing it? You may not know how to test.

 

Test again, go PvP... enter in War with trine shield or 1x1..... 

 

 

i will take video later, and post here... 

 

So here are my test results, I would like to see you're video showing the same damage (normal hits to normal hits, and critical hits to critical hits) when using Maximize as opposed to Trine Shield.

 

https://youtu.be/ZQsEi49ZAb4

[kuegen 36]

14 minutes ago, TrapHouse said:

 

So here are my test results, I would like to see you're video showing the same damage (normal hits to normal hits, and critical hits to critical hits) when using Maximize as opposed to Trine Shield.

 

https://youtu.be/ZQsEi49ZAb4

If u go bc u see a total difrent thing and u prob know it why not vid a ms tanking 4+ chars full and even unforgiven a ata tanking like no other with shield 136 also not even 140 she tanks 4 -5 chars also why dont we talk about bigball who hits 3.7k dosent it need a nerf of some thing? or this how the game is suppose to be? unbalanced bc

[BlackLabel 42]

58 minutes ago, Support said:

The game is not pay-to-win at all, I've managed to do 15kk in Bellatra with a level 136 archer without having anyone tanking the monsters for me. There are tons of ways to farm gold, people just do one that is extremely overpowered and think immediately that's the only way that ever existed to farm gold. How about doing Bellatra, even if  you only reach until Round 3 you still profit from the gold you invested to enter, so that's a win already. If you reach until the end, you can exchange your monster souls for plenty of rarities which is another extra gold. If that's not enough, participate in Hell's Gate every day, more chances of obtaining more rarities.

The only difference is that people actually have to invest time in the game to get good, unlike before where it just took a few hours to get enough gold to become top geared, which is not how it is supposed to work in any game.

 

For instance, would you pay 60$ for GTA V just to play 2 missions? No, nobody would. And this game is free, you don't have to pay to play it.

The more time you invest playing, the more you will enjoy it. That's what I call a good game.

Please decrease round 3 eliminations to one. Bellatra is  Full and only 2 can make 2kk+ points. 

[TrapHouse 102]

Just now, kuegen said:

If u go bc u see a total difrent thing and u prob know it why not vid a ms tanking 4+ chars full and even unforgiven a ata tanking like no other with shield 136 also not even 140 she tanks 4 -5 chars also why dont we talk about bigball who hits 3.7k dosent it need a nerf of some thing? or this how the game is suppose to be? unbalanced bc

 

You only look at enemy's, look at you're allies.

 

Do you believe multiple Archers in you're clan not wearing armors should be tanking multiple characters? Evading/Blocking over 60-70% of every attack against them?

Do you believe multiple Archers in you're clan should have the ability to kill 15x characters in 2 perforations with a fast skill animation?

Do you believe Atalants in you're clan should have the ability to kill 15x characters in 1 split javelin more then 50% of the time?

 

Do you take notice to these things or over look them because it's not something that is happening to you.

 

Next time you see a Mech tanking 4-5 characters at once and also killing, record a video and post it here. I don't want to see a video of him only tanking. I want to see a video of him tanking 4-5-6 characters all with 140/138 items as you previously stated, and him killing at the same time. 

[kuegen 36]

9 minutes ago, TrapHouse said:

 

You only look at enemy's, look at you're allies.

 

Do you believe multiple Archers in you're clan not wearing armors should be tanking multiple characters? Evading/Blocking over 60-70% of every attack against them?

Do you believe multiple Archers in you're clan should have the ability to kill 15x characters in 2 perforations with a fast skill animation?

Do you believe Atalants in you're clan should have the ability to kill 15x characters in 1 split javelin more then 50% of the time?

 

Do you take notice to these things or over look them because it's not something that is happening to you.

 

Next time you see a Mech tanking 4-5 characters at once and also killing, record a video and post it here. I don't want to see a video of him only tanking. I want to see a video of him tanking 4-5-6 characters all with 140/138 items as you previously stated, and him killing at the same time. 

I look at bouth sides u can take exemple of lucifer and arrow for the archers. and since u test chars to be balanced my question if why they still like this.

Do you believe Atalants in you're clan should have the ability to kill 15x characters in 1 split javelin more then 50% of the time?

-unforgiven- tanks alot more than any and also 1 hits i dont see your point

Next time you see a Mech tanking 4-5 characters at once and also killing, record a video and post it here. I don't want to see a video of him only tanking. I want to see a video of him tanking 4-5-6 characters all with 140/138 items as you previously stated, and him killing at the same time. 
go bc and watch

Edited June 16, 2017 by kuegen

[TrapHouse 102]

1 minute ago, kuegen said:

I look at bouth sides u can take exemple of lucifer and arrow for the archers. and since u test chars to be balanced my question if why they still like this.

Do you believe Atalants in you're clan should have the ability to kill 15x characters in 1 split javelin more then 50% of the time?

-unforgiven- tanks alot more than any and also 1 hits i dont see your point

 

It takes a lot testing to get balancing perfect. Also eventually a new code will be added to the game that will make balancing much much more easier then it is now. It's very hard to create a balance right now based upon the gap of levels and items different characters use. You can't balance a class based off 1 character in PvP alone, or 1 character in PvE alone. You need to make tests on 11x characters, 12x characters, 13x characters, 14x characters, 15x characters. You need to see how changes to skills / formulas will effect everyone, not just a certain group of players. There are some knowledgeable people helping to give detailed feedback on improvements to all classes currently, to allow the game developer to work on other updates while still having a small team doing side work.

[akasha 46]

Hi, I will give my thoughts on things you guys brought up, but more on the PvE stuff as I don't play PvP.

 

Quote

Players want to play game in certainty. 

"Certainty", I think he is saying various factors that affect the income of gold rather than just stating I earn xxkk gold without stating the given conditions.

 

For example in SoD, which has elimination, and class. level, items don't matter in Round 1-3, which is more dependent on your luck on getting Rabie Seal and SoD Point Sack.

 

Without input of elimination, if we earn 12kk per SoD, then 12 x 3 = 36kk per hour. So if we factor in that 25% chance of eilimination in Round 1-3, 50% chance of elimination in Round 3-6, also we know that we get 1kk gold after Round 3, 9kk gold after Round 6, and 12kk gold after Round 8, then 0.25 x 1 + 0.5 x 9 + 0.25 x 12 = 7.75, now 7.75kk x 3 = 23.25kk per hour.

 

So with the input of elimination, actual gold earn is 23.25kk/hr rather than 36kk/hr, which is 35.42% drop in your gold earning per hour, and considering the fact that you have to find something else to do after elimination, and that Round 1-4 is pretty boring for high level players, it's rather not exciting at all. As for 35.42% drop in efficiency, it can also be applied to other gold income per hour for SoD, for example, if you earn 33kk points as a Ks, which is suppose to be 28kk x3 = 84kk//hr, but factor in elimination then 28 x 3 x (1-0.3542) = 54.24kk/hr.

 

There are other stuff like bringing mule accounts into SoD, solo SoD vs party SoD etc, which are not factored in.

 

Anyway Monster Soul Prize follow the same logic, one out of 20 SoD gives a Phoenix Egg, one out of 300 SoD gives Phantom Amour, if Phoenix Egg = 10kk, Phantom amour = 200kk, then Monster Soul Prize net 10/(20/3) x 10 + 200/(300/3) = 0.38kk/hr, which means adding onto previous 23.25kk/hr, that increases to 23.63kk/hr, which means Monster Soul Prize is not helping the players getting more gold.

 

I just want to give my thoughts on farming, so we simply cannot say that earning 12kk per SoD means earning 36kk per hour without factoring in conditions. And I will bring in Hell Gate / CT3 / Draxos as comparison because these are the ones that generates gold in the fastest way.

 

---

Farming in CT3 basically follow the same thing.

 

For solo farm, the maximum gold per hour is 70kk per hour, there is no elimination, you simply either find the spawn or someone has already taken it. 

 

For party farm, the party follow the same concept as CT3/DiQ/SL-HS, basically Lurer, Killer and Seller, there is no tanker needed for high level players farming CT3, for low level player they farm ET1, but I'm not going to discuss ET1 because CT3 and ET1 pretty much same concept. So Lurer and Killer the same thing, the only difference is the seller, basically Seller's job is just to run to NPC and sell. The maximum gold I achieve in a Duo farm is 200kk at 1hr10min mark, which is also our best record, meaning 171kk/hr, so split between two players, 85.7kk gold per hour per player. I believe Duo party CT3 farm is the best efficiency, because it's possible to set up a macro + auto-click sequence for killer, but it's not possible to set up for Seller, so Lurer, Killer and Seller job can be done with just Duo party,

 

Now duo farm 85.7kk is what I agree we need a slight Nerf for CT3, but remember it's a max-out party farm strategy, as for solo farm 70kk is more or less comparable to Ks SoD, and CT3 farm gives Mage a power up for gold farm, because Mage don't do as well as Ks or Fs in SoD.

 

But again we need to factor in everything as much as we can into gold, CT3 don't offer Monster Soul Prize as SoD do, but it drops sheltom and respec stone, on average, for solo farm CT3 drop as per hour basis: 5 engima, 3 bellum, 2 dagaz, 0.7 oredo, 0.25 sapphire (suppose 1 sapphire dropped every 4 hours), 0.01 sol (suppose 1 sol dropped every 100 hours), then 5 x 1kk + 3 x 2.2kk + 2 x 2.2kk + 0.7 x 7kk + 0.25 x 22kk + 0.01 x 70kk = 22.7kk per hour, suppose you sold all sheltoms, then we have 26.47kk per hour, comparing to Monster Soul Prize which is 0.38kk per hour, we either Nerf sheltom drops or Buff Monster Soul Prize. 

 

Now add sheltom drop of 26.47kk onto solo farm CT3 70kk, we have 96.47kk/hr, which is indeed seems too much and need a Nerf, now I will talk about Draxos which generates more gold per hour.

 

---

Farming in SL Draxos same concept again, but I'm not bringing in SL solo farm because personally I spent 6 third eye of 72hrs, 6x729c = 4.374kc and also my personal play-time which I can spend playing other games without getting any >10kc drop goods. For SL-HS farm, to those EXP-sellers you guys can input gold per hour here, but you may have a lot factor to consider, like Rebirth Scroll, perfect party efficiency if you don't have the perfect class party like 1ms+1prs+3ks+lurer etc.

 

Anyway for Draxos, five Draxos drop one 138/140, each Draxos take 1.5hr either solo with 1ms + 10as, or Duo party with each person macro-ing two~five chars, or Trio party again each person macro-ing several chars  etc., for price 138 javelin 1kc, 138 sword 20kc, 140 shield 25kc, 140 robe 3kc etc., then on average 8kc income and 5 x 1.5hr = 7.5hr every five Draxos, and 900c = 500kk so 1kc = 555.55kk, then 8 x 555.55 / 7.5 = 592.59kk per hour.

 

For 592.59kk per hour, using this as a solo-kill comparing to 84kk/hr SoD, 96.47kk/hr CT3, Draxos is 7.0 times more than SoD and 6.1 times more than CT3, which is insane and stupid, 592.59kk per hour per person, really Oh My God, as I mentioned another time, I can donate and invest 100kc, buy 1ms+10as, and earn back 100kc in just a few weeks, considering that we have nine Draxos per day and five Draxos drop one 138/140, I can continue to earn 100kc more every few weeks, just imaging a few years later, Wartale release 142 items, each 142 items is worth more than what 138/140 is now, and only Boss farm is worth it, then a 142 items, for example 142 sword is worth 40kc, which is worth 4 of 140 character naked, which is insanely stupid in my opinion, tell me which MMORPG works this way(lol).

 

Anyway back to topic, using this as a Duo-kill, so split gold per person 592.59/2 = 269.30kk per hour per person, then 269.kk/hr is still overwhelming to 84kk/hr SoD and 96.47kk/hr CT3.

 

Using this as a Trio-kill, so split gold per person 592.59/3 = 197.53kk per hour per person, 197.53kk is still outrageously and wickedly overwhelming to 84kk/hr SoD and 96.47kk/hr CT3.

 

Now then Draxos would rather need a Nerf compare to SoD and CT3.

 

Even if we reduce to such that ten Draxos drop one 138/140, with the same killing time for solo/Duo/Trio party, then 8 x 555.55 / (10 x 1.5) = 296.30kk per hour, so solo farm Draxos 296.30kk/hr, Duo farm 197.53kk/hr, Trio farm 98.76kk/hr, therefore solo farm or Duo farm are still stupidly overwhelming, however Trio Draxos farm is now 96.76kk/hr, which is more or less equal to 96.47kk/hr CT3, so Draxos farm outright wins SoD farm or CT3 farm.

 

---

There is one more way to earn gold, which is selling EXP, currently 400c per 1 trillion, but I have no experience in EXP service, I will leave that to you guys to tell me gold per hour from EXP service/account selling.

 

Now we still have Hell Gate to do input, same concept, input items, drop rate, sell value, divided by time spent, we get gold per hour, but Hell Gate is really fun regardless of loot with the player interactions.

 

---

All the above discussion on gold per hour SoD, gold per hour CT3, gold per hour Draxos may be wrong, since I don't have the drop table and %drop, however I think they are more or less there, I hope those who discuss here can broaden your view on gold farm, because some only farm CT3, some only farm SoD, some only farm Draxos, for me, I have tried farming on all three respectively, and then we have the other guys who only farm EXP-service, and some only level-up mules for Account Selling etc. you guys can do your input here on your gold per hour, is it worthwhile and how much effort required compared to other farming strategies.

 

That why patch 5007 brings in so much outcry from players, because it is outright Nerf down and into the drain rather than a balance with respect to other farming strategy.

 

I hope now staff have more insights into how players farm, and what each farming strategy offer in term of Gold/Hour, currently Draxos has the best Gold/Hour, which to me again other problems exist, good ping and live near server to loot, macro on auto-click which means to activate it in one button binded to my keyboard when looting etc. of course also other problem like stronger clan refusing to share with solo player or weaker clan etc.

 

There are just too many problems unaddressed, and that simply by Nerfing gold farm in CT3 without Nerfing the other ways of gold farm is not a true balance in my opinion. My friends who farm CT3 quitted, but those who have other ways of farming stay. This is pure punishment to one game element without any oversight as to balancing the other way of gold farm.

 

In my honest opinion Wartale may as well make 50kk per hour as a standard benchmark for all ways of gold farm, that means SoD/CT3/Draxos/EXP-servce/Hell Gate/Account selling etc. all have max efficiency of 50kk/hr regardless of solo or party, and various affecting conditions etc.Setting a standard across the board and then outright Nerf every way of gold farm to max 50kk per hour, then no one will be at disadvantage, or maybe everyone quits and cry together (lol).

---

Quote

Also, we don't understand how making 100kk in 1 hour seemed normal to anyone. We still remember a time when 20-30kk in 1 hour was considered great.

That's like so long ago, please keep in touch with players, we can always voice out the current farming status and farming meta here in Wartale, I only pointed out SoD/CT3/Draxos, there are even other profitable gold farm like EXP-service and Account Selling, but I don't enjoy that so I don't have the input.

 

"We still remember a time when 20~30kk in 1 hour was considered great", then please set it as a standard benchmark here for Wartale, all existing ways of gold farm i.e. SoD / CT3 / Draxos / EXP-service / Account Selling to have 20~30kk/hr at max efficiency regardless of solo, party, using macro, using auto-click etc. so all the existing farming players across the whole of Wartale have the same advantage, though it will be insanely hard to balance that.

 

I have a Prs clanmate farming 40kk per hour CT3 solo, the goal was to purchase 25kc 138 wand, so 900c = 500kk and 1kc = 555.55kk, then 25kc x 555.55kk = 13888.57kk to be earned, so 13888.57 / 40 = 347.22hr, meaning that she will need to farm 347.22hr in CT3 to get a 138 wand, that's the average player for you, I'm not crying for them though, just saying the purpose of gold farm of an average player here in Wartale.

 

Quote

You could still farm gold in ct3,it was changed back

So CT3 is back to how it was? It may still need a balance, but not a stupidly overwhelming Nerf. By balancing, we should have a standard benchmark of xxkk per hour per person that is set across all ways of gold farming i.e SoD/CT3/Draxos/Hell Gate/Account selling/EXP-service, as mentioned above, which though will be very hard to balance, considering the fact that different way of gold farming requires different methods, and thus different amount of player efforts.

 

Quote

Please decrease round 3 eliminations to one. Bellatra is  Full and only 2 can make 2kk+ points. 

SoD is such an old school, for solo farming Round 1~3 is super boring and tedious because monster power and level are not on par with the players' characters, while Round 3~6 is mindless and un-exciting at all, while Round 8 is deadly to class except Mechanism, then SoD is one of the most boring and tedious way of farming gold for solo, party is always fun regardless of what we do, so hopefully someone has great idea to improve SoD and make it fun for solo, for example changing Earthquake Seal to something more interesting, or changing Summon Seals that stay through Round 1 to Round 8, and can tank monsters in Round 7 & 8 etc.

 

Edit: typos

Edited June 16, 2017 by akasha

[kuegen 36]

On 2017-6-11 at 3:42 PM, fabio95 said:

PS and FS killing many players too... and where's the nerf on them ? MS can't go BC 'cause he have no dmg . 

ms has no dmg? sorry but ur insane