About new changes on skills

[kamus2 0]

expansion no delays is NOT a good idea, although im a pike 134 in upt world...i dont like it, make unbalance the pike class and for most of the ppl its annoying, pike already has to much skills to KILL (CL, cs,sm and JC) why put expansion again? it just make no sense

[koleo 0]

So what are you saying there sandurr? That mechs have an option to be a tanker or an automech and that's it, so you just kill off powermechs? Or did I just read that wrong?

Nice.

Well 50% is unreasonable. You can't just push this under the rug because there are less players in the mech community. It took ata's a week to get delay off of their skill, before the patch was even released! It took pikes 2 weeks to get delay taken off their skill. It took prs 2 weeks of complaining to get CL boost.

But it takes mechs years, literally years! to get a descent boost, but then you nerf it instantly!

 

I will bitch and complain all I can to get some justification on this one.

50% is unreasonable and a total extreme. Even worse than when it was OP!

+400 atr on the least affective melee skill is unreasonable. Especially when many people are reporting that it misses 3/4 of the time or more.

Please fix mechs or just delete them from the system and compensate us all with a free class change.

Kthxbai.

[Rey 0]

expansion no delays is NOT a good idea, although im a pike 134 in upt world...i dont like it, make unbalance the pike class and for most of the ppl its annoying, pike already has to much skills to KILL (CL, cs,sm and JC) why put expansion again? it just make no sense

which does not make sense is to have a useless skill

expansion has already lost 20% of ur damage

 

and Jumping crash simply does not kill anything here

 

[koleo 0]

expansion no delays is NOT a good idea, although im a pike 134 in upt world...i dont like it, make unbalance the pike class and for most of the ppl its annoying, pike already has to much skills to KILL (CL, cs,sm and JC) why put expansion again? it just make no sense

which does not make sense is to have a useless skill

expansion has already lost 20% of ur damage

 

and Jumping crash simply does not kill anything here

Expansion in BC is like have an OP mech in BC.

Not balanced at all.

[The_LOL_killer 0]

expansion no delays is NOT a good idea, although im a pike 134 in upt world...i dont like it, make unbalance the pike class and for most of the ppl its annoying, pike already has to much skills to KILL (CL, cs,sm and JC) why put expansion again? it just make no sense

 

not everyone is lvl 134 in here. cl miss a lot if u train special at 10x -11x , try it make a pike 10x train in loc see how much cl / cs misses lol

 

pikes dont have atk rtg boost so they miss alot but when they hit high crit but theres no point if u cant land a hit in xping

 

-20% you still want delay?

[cocotime1 0]

what about mech tanking

 

or auto mechs

 

 

 

 

ps: knights drastic spirit 2% up to compensate godly shield nerf. not going to change this back.

 

 

 

lol ? :-\ u make me laugh

[dontcheatplz 0]

People dont need tankers.They want PRs much rather than tanker,because VL adds not only HP,but ABS(WTF!?).That's one of the reason why mech is badass.

[martual 1]

VL = Increase HP n Block 99% ^^

[Artier 0]

VL = Increase HP n Block 99% ^^

 

ikr. D:

And Abs too, why does it seem like you gain 200abs with VL. @_@

[The_LOL_killer 0]

what about mech tanking

 

or auto mechs

 

 

 

 

ps: knights drastic spirit 2% up to compensate godly shield nerf. not going to change this back.

 

 

 

lol ? :-\ u make me laugh

 

mech atk with gs w/ wep takes too long to kill now all miss and little dmge

 

so all mech should just spark / impulsion to hunt and take soo long to kill

 

mech tank vs prs vl = winner ( prs VL) wtf

[koleo 0]

what about mech tanking

 

or auto mechs

 

 

 

 

ps: knights drastic spirit 2% up to compensate godly shield nerf. not going to change this back.

 

 

 

lol ? :-\ u make me laugh

 

mech atk with gs w/ wep takes too long to kill now all miss and little dmge

 

so all mech should just spark / impulsion to hunt and take soo long to kill

 

mech tank vs prs vl = winner ( prs VL) wtf

Yup no one needs a tank if they have a prs walking around giving everyone 6 minute god mode rendering mechs tanking skills useless.

Now all we have left is what? Automation? Cause powermechs are out of the picture.

Nice there goes the use of 90% of our skills...

[cocotime1 0]

what about mech tanking

 

or auto mechs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ps: knights drastic spirit 2% up to compensate godly shield nerf. not going to change this back.

 

 

 

lol ? :-\ u make me laugh

 

mech atk with gs w/ wep takes too long to kill now all miss and little dmge

 

so all mech should just spark / impulsion to hunt and take soo long to kill

 

mech tank vs prs vl = winner ( prs VL) wtf

Yup no one needs a tank if they have a prs walking around giving everyone 6 minute god mode rendering mechs tanking skills useless.

Now all we have left is what? Automation? Cause powermechs are out of the picture.

Nice there goes the use of 90% of our skills...

 

 

 

yes, it must understand the gm.finally, the balance step to making a chaotic and senseless disorder, Automech or tank? does not work is crap 90% of a mech is power and you know, the player must choose his class, not what the gm imposed. Understand n.n

 

[The_LOL_killer 0]

what about mech tanking

 

or auto mechs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ps: knights drastic spirit 2% up to compensate godly shield nerf. not going to change this back.

 

 

 

lol ? :-\ u make me laugh

 

mech atk with gs w/ wep takes too long to kill now all miss and little dmge

 

so all mech should just spark / impulsion to hunt and take soo long to kill

 

mech tank vs prs vl = winner ( prs VL) wtf

Yup no one needs a tank if they have a prs walking around giving everyone 6 minute god mode rendering mechs tanking skills useless.

Now all we have left is what? Automation? Cause powermechs are out of the picture.

Nice there goes the use of 90% of our skills...

 

 

 

yes, it must understand the gm.finally, the balance step to making a chaotic and senseless disorder, Automech or tank? does not work is crap 90% of a mech is power and you know, the player must choose his class, not what the gm imposed. Understand n.n

 

no one quite understands your google translated english, but i know your saying mech skills are crap

[cocotime1 0]

what about mech tanking

 

or auto mechs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ps: knights drastic spirit 2% up to compensate godly shield nerf. not going to change this back.

 

 

 

lol ? :-\ u make me laugh

 

mech atk with gs w/ wep takes too long to kill now all miss and little dmge

 

so all mech should just spark / impulsion to hunt and take soo long to kill

 

mech tank vs prs vl = winner ( prs VL) wtf

Yup no one needs a tank if they have a prs walking around giving everyone 6 minute god mode rendering mechs tanking skills useless.

Now all we have left is what? Automation? Cause powermechs are out of the picture.

Nice there goes the use of 90% of our skills...

 

 

 

yes, it must understand the gm.finally, the balance step to making a chaotic and senseless disorder, Automech or tank? does not work is crap 90% of a mech is power and you know, the player must choose his class, not what the gm imposed. Understand n.n

 

no one quite understands your google translated english, but i know your saying mech skills are crap

 

sry my bad english, but the case is skill's mech are crap right now , a new solution we wait for this.

[kamus2 0]

i said im 134 IN UPT WORLD not here and im PIKEMAN, ok tell me if u really want to get raped by 12x pike? just this case, u are 13x full donate bla bla, and some 12x can get u to easy...u call that balance? i know expansion is better for hunt due the less miss but Pike is not a "hunt" char ...so IMO make it no delay and this strong just make no sense and i guess thats not good for the ppl who going to bc

[cocotime1 0]

gm you have to take this seriously (: , whe u're creating a balance you cause a disorder skill

[Zero 0]

Yup no one needs a tank if they have a prs walking around giving everyone 6 minute god mode rendering mechs tanking skills useless.

Now all we have left is what? Automation? Cause powermechs are out of the picture.

Nice there goes the use of 90% of our skills...

 

Tank mechs were not made useless by VL, but things like instant-pot being used when the abs/def caught up. I'm not denying VL has a part in it, but its only one part of a much bigger picture that often gets ignored in this debate.

 

-As I said instant pots play a huge role in this. This has been here since the very beginning of the game and its simply a part of PT. Its probably the only game I've ever seen with instantaneous hp potions that also restore all of your health.

 

-We also play on a private server with far more available OP equipment, gems and so forth giving stats beyond comparison to retail. As long as I live for one skill I can pot and be back at full. I did this in retail back when people would've called me an idiot for going with a non-hp build. It wasn't economical with pot usage, but the important part is it worked. I had more damage and did things faster, the hp meant nothing so long as I could live to the next instant pot.

 

-People solo things w/o VL, while it makes it easier, its not always a necessity. Don't tell me you've never seen people solo anything or any spawn w/o VL. Those near 7kk mage sod solos aren't because they have a prs in the room to VL them. Its proof of the boosted abs/def and overall stats through levels we have here in a private server. People would still solo things even if it were completely removed, they would just take spawns that are smaller. VL boosts our power to take on larger spawns, it doesn't change the fact we can still solo monsters w/o it.

 

Many of us here have played retail before, and I'm sure we remember that VL had the same effects there and didn't always save us. It makes sense, it wasn't instant godmode with the low stats we had on retail, in fact it usually just barely saved you from death sometimes and often you died regardless. The reason its different here is because when you take the other factors into account, it is what pushes a char over the hump in doing things that seem crazy.

 

Challenge to opponents of VL:

 

-People say VL encourages "solo mode". Even if VL be all together removed, I have more than enough gear to cover taking on at least half what I did before, even though like I said above, it may not be economical pot usage. [Pots aren't a problem here anyway] VL doesn't change fundamental facts. People have this idea that if its nerfed or removed, that suddenly classes like FS will start landing parties. VL has nothing to do with kill rates, which is the fundamental basis for all exp. Exp is what determines whether or not you will party someone unless you have an inherit need for some ability you can't supply yourself [tanking, healing, etc]. Given the easy aging, levels, etc of a private server, I will never need these tank abilities from others since the epic stats will guarantee I can do it to some extent. Sure, you slowed down my solo exp rate by limiting how many monsters I can fight, but as long as I have 2 monsters FS is at an instant loss. I can still solo faster than joining up with most parties because nothing changed in the balance of how fast we kill. Nerfing VL will not make classes like FS kill any faster in the AoE department. As long as I kill faster, I have an advantage in exp soloing. <------------This is the fundamental problem.

 

              - The point of this is trying to remove tanking abilities to force us to need others is rather useless. This isn't retail, we have epic gear, gems, ages, etc. that more than supply what we need to tank basic spawns. If all else fails, you abuse the easy leveling to gain the stats necessary to do so.

 

              - Wartale has the right idea changing exp ratios. At some point, even if someone kills slower than me, I will still gain more exp if the ratio is good enough. This is what will create incentive to party. If you boost the party exp ratio higher and reduce the individual exp per mob, it will hurt those who solo and favor those who party. The difference from now would be parties gain exp at a slightly faster rate than before [with a good enough ratio] and soloers are hurt a lot by the significant exp reductions per mob.

 

-There is also a growing fundamental problem in encouraging party play that we experienced on retail. The lower maps are becoming deserted. As time goes by in any game, the average user grows stronger and higher level. Many veterans probably never experienced this and don't take this into consideration, back when they joined every spawn was probably filled to the brim with parties. Lower levels get punished if they become unable to play without parties, since there aren't many around for them anymore. If it were like the old days and I need mech/prs/mgs/assorted melee to do anything, I would never find the people necessary to do so. I'd struggle for no exp and eventually probably give up in frustration as many users on retail did [i wasn't one of them, I played in the old days] Boosting the party ratio and nerfing individual mob exp on higher maps gives the higher levels reason to join up, and it means newbies can still solo what they need to join the crowd, and get even greater exp should they find a mate to party with. This would advantage all sides of the debate.

 

Sorry for the wall of text, but instead of people taking their misguided anger out on prs for what really is a MUCH larger issue than VL, hopefully they will read and respond critically to what I wrote.

[mai801chan 0]

Yup no one needs a tank if they have a prs walking around giving everyone 6 minute god mode rendering mechs tanking skills useless.

Now all we have left is what? Automation? Cause powermechs are out of the picture.

Nice there goes the use of 90% of our skills...

 

Tank mechs were not made useless by VL, but things like instant-pot being used when the abs/def caught up. I'm not denying VL has a part in it, but its only one part of a much bigger picture that often gets ignored in this debate.

 

-As I said instant pots play a huge role in this. This has been here since the very beginning of the game and its simply a part of PT. Its probably the only game I've ever seen with instantaneous hp potions that also restore all of your health.

 

-We also play on a private server with far more available OP equipment, gems and so forth giving stats beyond comparison to retail. As long as I live for one skill I can pot and be back at full. I did this in retail back when people would've called me an idiot for going with a non-hp build. It wasn't economical with pot usage, but the important part is it worked. I had more damage and did things faster, the hp meant nothing so long as I could live to the next instant pot.

 

-People solo things w/o VL, while it makes it easier, its not always a necessity. Don't tell me you've never seen people solo anything or any spawn w/o VL. Those near 7kk mage sod solos aren't because they have a prs in the room to VL them. Its proof of the boosted abs/def and overall stats through levels we have here in a private server. People would still solo things even if it were completely removed, they would just take spawns that are smaller. VL boosts our power to take on larger spawns, it doesn't change the fact we can still solo monsters w/o it.

 

Many of us here have played retail before, and I'm sure we remember that VL had the same effects there and didn't always save us. It makes sense, it wasn't instant godmode with the low stats we had on retail, in fact it usually just barely saved you from death sometimes and often you died regardless. The reason its different here is because when you take the other factors into account, it is what pushes a char over the hump in doing things that seem crazy.

 

Challenge to opponents of VL:

 

-People say VL encourages "solo mode". Even if VL be all together removed, I have more than enough gear to cover taking on at least half what I did before, even though like I said above, it may not be economical pot usage. [Pots aren't a problem here anyway] VL doesn't change fundamental facts. People have this idea that if its nerfed or removed, that suddenly classes like FS will start landing parties. VL has nothing to do with kill rates, which is the fundamental basis for all exp. Exp is what determines whether or not you will party someone unless you have an inherit need for some ability you can't supply yourself [tanking, healing, etc]. Given the easy aging, levels, etc of a private server, I will never need these tank abilities from others since the epic stats will guarantee I can do it to some extent. Sure, you slowed down my solo exp rate by limiting how many monsters I can fight, but as long as I have 2 monsters FS is at an instant loss. I can still solo faster than joining up with most parties because nothing changed in the balance of how fast we kill. Nerfing VL will not make classes like FS kill any faster in the AoE department. As long as I kill faster, I have an advantage in exp soloing. <------------This is the fundamental problem.

 

              - The point of this is trying to remove tanking abilities to force us to need others is rather useless. This isn't retail, we have epic gear, gems, ages, etc. that more than supply what we need to tank basic spawns. If all else fails, you abuse the easy leveling to gain the stats necessary to do so.

 

              - Wartale has the right idea changing exp ratios. At some point, even if someone kills slower than me, I will still gain more exp if the ratio is good enough. This is what will create incentive to party. If you boost the party exp ratio higher and reduce the individual exp per mob, it will hurt those who solo and favor those who party. The difference from now would be parties gain exp at a slightly faster rate than before [with a good enough ratio] and soloers are hurt a lot by the significant exp reductions per mob.

 

-There is also a growing fundamental problem in encouraging party play that we experienced on retail. The lower maps are becoming deserted. As time goes by in any game, the average user grows stronger and higher level. Many veterans probably never experienced this and don't take this into consideration, back when they joined every spawn was probably filled to the brim with parties. Lower levels get punished if they become unable to play without parties, since there aren't many around for them anymore. If it were like the old days and I need mech/prs/mgs/assorted melee to do anything, I would never find the people necessary to do so. I'd struggle for no exp and eventually probably give up in frustration as many users on retail did [i wasn't one of them, I played in the old days] Boosting the party ratio and nerfing individual mob exp on higher maps gives the higher levels reason to join up, and it means newbies can still solo what they need to join the crowd, and get even greater exp should they find a mate to party with. This would advantage all sides of the debate.

 

Sorry for the wall of text, but instead of people taking their misguided anger out on prs for what really is a MUCH larger issue than VL, hopefully they will read and respond critically to what I wrote.

 

You rule. Enough said.

[koleo 0]

Yup no one needs a tank if they have a prs walking around giving everyone 6 minute god mode rendering mechs tanking skills useless.

Now all we have left is what? Automation? Cause powermechs are out of the picture.

Nice there goes the use of 90% of our skills...

 

Tank mechs were not made useless by VL, but things like instant-pot being used when the abs/def caught up. I'm not denying VL has a part in it, but its only one part of a much bigger picture that often gets ignored in this debate.

 

-As I said instant pots play a huge role in this. This has been here since the very beginning of the game and its simply a part of PT. Its probably the only game I've ever seen with instantaneous hp potions that also restore all of your health.

 

-We also play on a private server with far more available OP equipment, gems and so forth giving stats beyond comparison to retail. As long as I live for one skill I can pot and be back at full. I did this in retail back when people would've called me an idiot for going with a non-hp build. It wasn't economical with pot usage, but the important part is it worked. I had more damage and did things faster, the hp meant nothing so long as I could live to the next instant pot.

 

-People solo things w/o VL, while it makes it easier, its not always a necessity. Don't tell me you've never seen people solo anything or any spawn w/o VL. Those near 7kk mage sod solos aren't because they have a prs in the room to VL them. Its proof of the boosted abs/def and overall stats through levels we have here in a private server. People would still solo things even if it were completely removed, they would just take spawns that are smaller. VL boosts our power to take on larger spawns, it doesn't change the fact we can still solo monsters w/o it.

 

Many of us here have played retail before, and I'm sure we remember that VL had the same effects there and didn't always save us. It makes sense, it wasn't instant godmode with the low stats we had on retail, in fact it usually just barely saved you from death sometimes and often you died regardless. The reason its different here is because when you take the other factors into account, it is what pushes a char over the hump in doing things that seem crazy.

 

Challenge to opponents of VL:

 

-People say VL encourages "solo mode". Even if VL be all together removed, I have more than enough gear to cover taking on at least half what I did before, even though like I said above, it may not be economical pot usage. [Pots aren't a problem here anyway] VL doesn't change fundamental facts. People have this idea that if its nerfed or removed, that suddenly classes like FS will start landing parties. VL has nothing to do with kill rates, which is the fundamental basis for all exp. Exp is what determines whether or not you will party someone unless you have an inherit need for some ability you can't supply yourself [tanking, healing, etc]. Given the easy aging, levels, etc of a private server, I will never need these tank abilities from others since the epic stats will guarantee I can do it to some extent. Sure, you slowed down my solo exp rate by limiting how many monsters I can fight, but as long as I have 2 monsters FS is at an instant loss. I can still solo faster than joining up with most parties because nothing changed in the balance of how fast we kill. Nerfing VL will not make classes like FS kill any faster in the AoE department. As long as I kill faster, I have an advantage in exp soloing. <------------This is the fundamental problem.

 

              - The point of this is trying to remove tanking abilities to force us to need others is rather useless. This isn't retail, we have epic gear, gems, ages, etc. that more than supply what we need to tank basic spawns. If all else fails, you abuse the easy leveling to gain the stats necessary to do so.

 

              - Wartale has the right idea changing exp ratios. At some point, even if someone kills slower than me, I will still gain more exp if the ratio is good enough. This is what will create incentive to party. If you boost the party exp ratio higher and reduce the individual exp per mob, it will hurt those who solo and favor those who party. The difference from now would be parties gain exp at a slightly faster rate than before [with a good enough ratio] and soloers are hurt a lot by the significant exp reductions per mob.

 

-There is also a growing fundamental problem in encouraging party play that we experienced on retail. The lower maps are becoming deserted. As time goes by in any game, the average user grows stronger and higher level. Many veterans probably never experienced this and don't take this into consideration, back when they joined every spawn was probably filled to the brim with parties. Lower levels get punished if they become unable to play without parties, since there aren't many around for them anymore. If it were like the old days and I need mech/prs/mgs/assorted melee to do anything, I would never find the people necessary to do so. I'd struggle for no exp and eventually probably give up in frustration as many users on retail did [i wasn't one of them, I played in the old days] Boosting the party ratio and nerfing individual mob exp on higher maps gives the higher levels reason to join up, and it means newbies can still solo what they need to join the crowd, and get even greater exp should they find a mate to party with. This would advantage all sides of the debate.

 

Sorry for the wall of text, but instead of people taking their misguided anger out on prs for what really is a MUCH larger issue than VL, hopefully they will read and respond critically to what I wrote.

I don't know what server you sir are playing on; but here on Wartale Vl is Godmode because it is bugged.

Of course people solo without vl, but it usually means they take smaller spawns or lower lvl maps (which has been fixed a little with the latest patch if you read it).

This, although, is totally not what I am talking about and is veering way off topic.

I was saying that since PRS can put people into godmode or themselves into godmode with bugged VL then there is no point for a tanking mech therefore rendering tank mechs useless.

Also my argument is being justified in this sense because if tank mechs are not of use in this server then it has a deep impact on my character seeing as how I can no longer be a powermech.

[Zero 0]

I don't know what server you sir are playing on; but here on Wartale Vl is Godmode because it is bugged.

Of course people solo without vl, but it usually means they take smaller spawns or lower lvl maps (which has been fixed a little with the latest patch if you read it).

This, although, is totally not what I am talking about and is veering way off topic.

I was saying that since PRS can put people into godmode or themselves into godmode with bugged VL then there is no point for a tanking mech therefore rendering tank mechs useless.

Also my argument is being justified in this sense because if tank mechs are not of use in this server then it has a deep impact on my character seeing as how I can no longer be a powermech.

 

Bug [wikied it for ease] - "common term used to describe an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways"

 

People seem to really not get that point, ---> unintended <----. It is impossible for you to know what a bug in any program is unless you consult the person who developed it themselves with their intentions, which would be the developers of retail that aren't existent here. Many people such as yourself are simply claiming that because its something you don't know or can't explain, that it must be a bug.

 

Ex: Until users defined things like HP formulas, weight formulas, etc themselves, we never could know or explain why we had x hp, so are you saying that was "bugged" too? [since sandurr changed HP formulas for his own use he defined it with his own intent and thus knows it is not bugged]. How could you say it was working or wasn't working as intended until then? You couldn't, you're not the developer.

Just like HP formulas, etc., its common sense in any game you play not each little mechanic is explained or given to you in full detail. This is done for a variety of reasons, but none the less you can't claim simply because the developer didn't give you every little mechanic that something is a bug because you don't know what it actually is. What you can claim is its a potential bug. Perhaps I should make a flow chart so people can define basic terms for themselves as to whats "bugged".

 

- This will be different with tier5, because sandurr is the developer and will be able to tell us what is and isn't a bug due to knowing his intent as the developer.

 

- Both VL and ES for mage seemed to have "hidden mechanics/potential bugs" upon implementation, neither of which was ever changed in retail to my knowledge or on most private servers. This further suggests that we can only claim it is a potential bug, a problem introduced with such power that was never altered over years suggests the developers may have intended that effect or were extremely lazy . [i'm not doubting the 2nd option either ]

 

- This is also relevant to what happened with the previous patch where mech seemed OP with higher atk rating on GS. Only sandurr had the right to say it was bugged in this case, he did the altering as a developer and can say what he did and didn't intend. Had he come out and said " I intended that to happen " all the people shouting bug would've been left with a rather dumbfounded look on their face. It is clear that even he can make mistakes in understanding the games mechanics, you honestly think even if the original developers told you everything you would understand it? Of course not, we don't all specialize in game development and so forth. Sometimes things are hidden for these reasons simply because you won't understand it even if they told you.

 

I suggest you and everyone else who goes around broadcasting bug as an argument learn to properly use the term. It invalidates your argument if all it is "it should be fixed because its bugged". While you can only say it is a potential bug, you have many grounds to say it is OP as a legitimate argument. <--- I suggest people take this route if they want to argue against VL, I'm going to lose some sanity if I see another person misuses the word "bugged" in this case of VL without legitimate evidence to back up their claim.

 

[koleo 0]

Was a long read, kinda just skimmed it cause I'm exping atm.

What I saw was that you said VL isn't bugged due to what the definition of "bug" means. Don't try yo logic rape me lol.

Everyone knows that VL has super powers, it is very obvious. Go sit in the hardest exp map you can with no buffs. Then put VL on and you will notice that it does more than add HP.

Also noticed you said ES is bugged. Sorry but no it isn't in this server (not sure what server you are playing?) because it doesn't carry over to your 2h weapon and 15% block is rarely even noticed as it is now.

 

I tried my mech with 1.4k HP and lost hp just as fast as I would with 900 hp in MD3 (at lvl 105ish)

Then got a Prs to give me vl in MD3 and viola! I don't lose any hp at all. That is called a bug.

[b1nb1n2010 0]

Yup no one needs a tank if they have a prs walking around giving everyone 6 minute god mode rendering mechs tanking skills useless.

Now all we have left is what? Automation? Cause powermechs are out of the picture.

Nice there goes the use of 90% of our skills...

 

Tank mechs were not made useless by VL, but things like instant-pot being used when the abs/def caught up. I'm not denying VL has a part in it, but its only one part of a much bigger picture that often gets ignored in this debate.

 

-As I said instant pots play a huge role in this. This has been here since the very beginning of the game and its simply a part of PT. Its probably the only game I've ever seen with instantaneous hp potions that also restore all of your health.

 

-We also play on a private server with far more available OP equipment, gems and so forth giving stats beyond comparison to retail. As long as I live for one skill I can pot and be back at full. I did this in retail back when people would've called me an idiot for going with a non-hp build. It wasn't economical with pot usage, but the important part is it worked. I had more damage and did things faster, the hp meant nothing so long as I could live to the next instant pot.

 

-People solo things w/o VL, while it makes it easier, its not always a necessity. Don't tell me you've never seen people solo anything or any spawn w/o VL. Those near 7kk mage sod solos aren't because they have a prs in the room to VL them. Its proof of the boosted abs/def and overall stats through levels we have here in a private server. People would still solo things even if it were completely removed, they would just take spawns that are smaller. VL boosts our power to take on larger spawns, it doesn't change the fact we can still solo monsters w/o it.

 

Many of us here have played retail before, and I'm sure we remember that VL had the same effects there and didn't always save us. It makes sense, it wasn't instant godmode with the low stats we had on retail, in fact it usually just barely saved you from death sometimes and often you died regardless. The reason its different here is because when you take the other factors into account, it is what pushes a char over the hump in doing things that seem crazy.

 

Challenge to opponents of VL:

 

-People say VL encourages "solo mode". Even if VL be all together removed, I have more than enough gear to cover taking on at least half what I did before, even though like I said above, it may not be economical pot usage. [Pots aren't a problem here anyway] VL doesn't change fundamental facts. People have this idea that if its nerfed or removed, that suddenly classes like FS will start landing parties. VL has nothing to do with kill rates, which is the fundamental basis for all exp. Exp is what determines whether or not you will party someone unless you have an inherit need for some ability you can't supply yourself [tanking, healing, etc]. Given the easy aging, levels, etc of a private server, I will never need these tank abilities from others since the epic stats will guarantee I can do it to some extent. Sure, you slowed down my solo exp rate by limiting how many monsters I can fight, but as long as I have 2 monsters FS is at an instant loss. I can still solo faster than joining up with most parties because nothing changed in the balance of how fast we kill. Nerfing VL will not make classes like FS kill any faster in the AoE department. As long as I kill faster, I have an advantage in exp soloing. <------------This is the fundamental problem.

 

              - The point of this is trying to remove tanking abilities to force us to need others is rather useless. This isn't retail, we have epic gear, gems, ages, etc. that more than supply what we need to tank basic spawns. If all else fails, you abuse the easy leveling to gain the stats necessary to do so.

 

              - Wartale has the right idea changing exp ratios. At some point, even if someone kills slower than me, I will still gain more exp if the ratio is good enough. This is what will create incentive to party. If you boost the party exp ratio higher and reduce the individual exp per mob, it will hurt those who solo and favor those who party. The difference from now would be parties gain exp at a slightly faster rate than before [with a good enough ratio] and soloers are hurt a lot by the significant exp reductions per mob.

 

-There is also a growing fundamental problem in encouraging party play that we experienced on retail. The lower maps are becoming deserted. As time goes by in any game, the average user grows stronger and higher level. Many veterans probably never experienced this and don't take this into consideration, back when they joined every spawn was probably filled to the brim with parties. Lower levels get punished if they become unable to play without parties, since there aren't many around for them anymore. If it were like the old days and I need mech/prs/mgs/assorted melee to do anything, I would never find the people necessary to do so. I'd struggle for no exp and eventually probably give up in frustration as many users on retail did [i wasn't one of them, I played in the old days] Boosting the party ratio and nerfing individual mob exp on higher maps gives the higher levels reason to join up, and it means newbies can still solo what they need to join the crowd, and get even greater exp should they find a mate to party with. This would advantage all sides of the debate.

 

Sorry for the wall of text, but instead of people taking their misguided anger out on prs for what really is a MUCH larger issue than VL, hopefully they will read and respond critically to what I wrote.

I don't know what server you sir are playing on; but here on Wartale Vl is Godmode because it is bugged.

Of course people solo without vl, but it usually means they take smaller spawns or lower lvl maps (which has been fixed a little with the latest patch if you read it).

This, although, is totally not what I am talking about and is veering way off topic.

I was saying that since PRS can put people into godmode or themselves into godmode with bugged VL then there is no point for a tanking mech therefore rendering tank mechs useless.

Also my argument is being justified in this sense because if tank mechs are not of use in this server then it has a deep impact on my character seeing as how I can no longer be a powermech.

Wrong. According to what u were trying to say, VL was bugged a long time ago ( or actually not bugged) on the pre-EPT, EPT, KPT, other official servers and of course the same to all private servers. So, to make it clear, realm PT is not the exception.

[Zero 0]

Was a long read, kinda just skimmed it cause I'm exping atm.

What I saw was that you said VL isn't bugged due to what the definition of "bug" means. Don't try yo logic rape me lol.

Everyone knows that VL has super powers, it is very obvious. Go sit in the hardest exp map you can with no buffs. Then put VL on and you will notice that it does more than add HP.

Also noticed you said ES is bugged. Sorry but no it isn't in this server (not sure what server you are playing?) because it doesn't carry over to your 2h weapon and 15% block is rarely even noticed as it is now.

 

I tried my mech with 1.4k HP and lost hp just as fast as I would with 900 hp in MD3 (at lvl 105ish)

Then got a Prs to give me vl in MD3 and viola! I don't lose any hp at all. That is called a bug.

 

That is the definition of OP, not bugged. Bug = whats strong? I could go on with a long list of "bugs" then .

 

I told you at the end of my argument, there are a lot of things you can say to give evidence for the argument that VL is OP. People are mistaking the two as one in the same which is not true. A bug can be weak, such as when block from ES on mechs didn't work [or so I was told]. We know this is a bug because the developers have clearly labeled their intent for the skill, that it should add +11% block [at the time we were saying it was bugged I believe it was that]. Anything beyond their stated intent here is only labeled at best as a potential bug. VL is a potential bug because it does fulfill its stated intent on the skill [+30% hp on the marker, it does not add 31% or 29%, etc. which we could say IS a bug]. Anything beyond that as I said, is only speculation at best because other intents can not be made certain without confirmation from the developers themselves.

 

If you can't handle the logic someone is giving you in a debate then you don't have a place in staking that your argument has validity, but you're still free to express your opinion.

[koleo 0]

Was a long read, kinda just skimmed it cause I'm exping atm.

What I saw was that you said VL isn't bugged due to what the definition of "bug" means. Don't try yo logic rape me lol.

Everyone knows that VL has super powers, it is very obvious. Go sit in the hardest exp map you can with no buffs. Then put VL on and you will notice that it does more than add HP.

Also noticed you said ES is bugged. Sorry but no it isn't in this server (not sure what server you are playing?) because it doesn't carry over to your 2h weapon and 15% block is rarely even noticed as it is now.

 

I tried my mech with 1.4k HP and lost hp just as fast as I would with 900 hp in MD3 (at lvl 105ish)

Then got a Prs to give me vl in MD3 and viola! I don't lose any hp at all. That is called a bug.

 

That is the definition of OP, not bugged. Bug = whats strong? I could go on with a long list of "bugs" then .

 

I told you at the end of my argument, there are a lot of things you can say to give evidence for the argument that VL is OP. People are mistaking the two as one in the same which is not true. A bug can be weak, such as when block from ES on mechs didn't work [or so I was told]. We know this is a bug because the developers have clearly labeled their intent for the skill, that it should add +11% block [at the time we were saying it was bugged I believe it was that]. Anything beyond their stated intent here is only labeled at best as a potential bug. VL is a potential bug because it does fulfill its stated intent on the skill [+30% hp on the marker, it does not add 31% or 29%, etc. which we could say IS a bug]. Anything beyond that as I said, is only speculation at best because other intents can not be made certain without confirmation from the developers themselves.

 

If you can't handle the logic someone is giving you in a debate then you don't have a place in staking that your argument has validity, but you're still free to express your opinion.

This is hilarious.

This topic is about how mechs got screwed over and you keep rambling on about the validity of the definition given to a bugged or "broken" skill. Seeing as how you are so touchy over the definition of a word that is used described a defective skill.

Your argument is idiotic and moronic; your topic is invalid.

 

On topic though.

Does anyone know if the GM's are getting any contact or information about the stance us mechs are taking? I hope this is getting through to them

 

[Zero 0]

This is hilarious.

This topic is about how mechs got screwed over and you keep rambling on about the validity of the definition given to a bugged or "broken" skill. Seeing as how you are so touchy over the definition of a word that is used described a defective skill.

Your argument is idiotic and moronic; your topic is invalid.

 

On topic though.

Does anyone know if the GM's are getting any contact or information about the stance us mechs are taking? I hope this is getting through to them

 

-This topic is indeed about mechs, and someone brought in how VL was related to tankmech which is where I entered. I had grounds to object that their point had some inconsistencies, which brought this on.

 

-Definitions are important when going about fixing things. A bug is usually something you want to erase, something that should've never been there in the first place and is causing unfavorable operations as such. If VL was certain to be a bug, we would want to eradicate all of its extra effects. If VL was not certain to be a bug, we may only want to remove part of it because it is OP rather than a bug. The two have very different effects for Prs users. [slight nerf vs removal of all other effects]. This is why definitions are important in this case

 

-Really? The sheer lack of effort in that apparent insult was just disheartening. That's like me saying "Right back at you!" as my only response . You could at least put effort into saying why my argument is invalid or idiotic.

 

Also, moronic is along the same lines as idiotic. It's like saying "Your argument is stupid and stupid" .

 

Nice try though.