This is why PvP is boring.

[DarkLink64 921]

Lately i'm kinda bored with the game. Some friends asked: "Hey DarkLink! Where are you? We've been missing you on BC!"

Here is my answer: 

 

No wonder - a single Phoenix Shot (176%) has more damage multiplier than Fighter Destroyer (150%) - and they can cast it very quickly non-stop. And Archers are mathematically proven to tank more than a Mechanician. 

 

To me it's most most dumb class for PvP, Siege War and Boss Hunting. 

But I can predict the replies on this thread: probably i'm just a noob that don't know how to play. Yeah, might be, so i'm bailing PvP untill "I" get better or when someone justify that a Phoenix Shot dealing 1667 of damage on a tank Knight is "player skill" and is perfectly normal and acceptable.

Cheers.

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by DarkLink64

[DarkLink64 921]

I wouldn't even waste my time with a full argument.

This video I put all my available stats into Vitality. I cant see anyone killing with 800 Attack Power :) And I was STILL able to be killed with two sequential Phoenix Shot. 1667 and 1555.

I do agree with ya, Knights are a hell of a beast when tanking, but it still dies to Archers. I received 1667 + 1555. Do the math  = 3222. Yeah its rare, but it still possible. The average damage is 1400 on crits, and to be honest, 1400 is a hell of a damage on normal builds that sports 2000 HP on average

I can't imagine any class that can have up to that aumont of HP while still being able to do damage.


Imagine a Fighter or a Pikeman vs an Archer. They would receive 1800~2000 damage. The heck, a single Phoenix Shot would leave their HP at bare minimum. There is no viable HP build for them to survive this bull crap without removing a lot of their own damage.


Face it, Archers are broken. Otherwise there wouldn't a lot of them on BC. If you land a single Phoenix Shot critical, any upcoming hit of any team mate will kill the target. Thats why she is so broken.

Edited January 26, 2018 by DarkLink64

[Mrzero 123]

Change to AS and see AS power as u said bro! let see how do u feel when u play AS ... that all i can tell u..

[DarkLink64 921]

Nah, thanks. I'd rather play with something I really like, be it strong or weak, rather than playing a broken class like pretty much 90% of these archers.

But if you give me the coins to Change, I would change to AS.

Edited January 26, 2018 by DarkLink64

[Mrzero 123]

^..^! nothing to talk with u more 

u r boring

[DarkLink64 921]

8 minutes ago, Mrzero said:

^..^! nothing to talk with u more 

u r boring

Yeah, I am, so are facing broken Archers that a single crit leaves anyone HP almost zero.

[Mjizzy_7 1,962]

Bro the problem is u can talk so much as u want, nothing will change, The best way, Quit game like i did. i Play other servers atleast there i have more fun. Here nothing is gonnna change. BIG update wanted to come 27 or 28 December. All still same . Im done with all

Edited January 26, 2018 by Moussi7

[Dsauce 145]

nerf as and ks, buff assasin, and mg. and ps atas alittle. Everyone is gonna be happy :D!

Again. It would be nice to see people play a variety of classes. Not heavily go on a change-class rapid fire when some classes become OP

 

[- D E A T H S T R O K E - 1,764]

 

Knight is also Broken on PvP

 

With holy Aura fully charged a Ks 141 with sw 130+22 could do 2K Damage on shamam 146 full 136+21 [ Many times actually and higher than DT] with double or GC, how much damage a KS 160 with  an Exclusive weapon for being the first 16x which is STRONGER than weapons 138 and BLESS CASTLE CROWN would do?

Ks has the  second highest atck Rtg  above all melee classes and magic classes , Hammer got 60 + atack rtg, so Mechs have the highest.

Ks has a high Crit chance , 41% with sw 138+22.

Knight has the highest defense of the game on Pvp, mechs, with extreme shield and metal armor + comp can't tank as much as knights ,they just need to hold till holy aura recharge again, and , they could easily do so. [ or they could attack some mules on safe zone to charge it and then hit and run, pathetic].

It has the best active support skill [LS freezes the target for 8 secs,not being able to attack nor run, the f*uck, neither pris could do so].

 

Mechs may seldom hit kill with maximize, but , they are not immortals with maximize , knights are just immortals and hit killers.

 

 

 

 

[christopher 100]

11 hours ago, DarkLink64 said:

Lately i'm kinda bored with the game. Some friends asked: "Hey DarkLink! Where are you? We've been missing you on BC!"

Here is my answer: 

 

No wonder - a single Phoenix Shot (176%) has more damage multiplier than Fighter Destroyer (150%) - and they can cast it very quickly non-stop. And Archers are mathematically proven to tank more than a Mechanician. 

 

To me it's most most dumb class for PvP, Siege War and Boss Hunting. 

But I can predict the replies on this thread: probably i'm just a noob that don't know how to play. Yeah, might be, so i'm bailing PvP untill "I" get better or when someone justify that a Phoenix Shot dealing 1667 of damage on a tank Knight is "player skill" and is perfectly normal and acceptable.

Cheers.

 

Stop this please,

Archer  Phoenix Shot ( 176%)  does not have stronger than Fighter Destroyer ( 150%). And Archer are NOT mathematically proven to tank more than a Mechanician!

First off, let me start with Phoenix Shot, Its stronger than most of the Non-Delay skills! But not stronger than killer ( delay skills.) Why?

Well, because Archer do not have any delay skills ( thats why her PS need to be stronger than AC or DC or veng.) - Simple question, so stop talking  how strong Phoenix Shot is!!!

Second,  Archer is one of the WEAKEST tanking char in this game. What make archer strong is all the buffs ( namely ata's buffs evade, draxos boots, and champions.) Which all boost  evasion. And, that doesnt mean Archer is the most tanking char, she has the most evasion in any char. The other important point i want to point out for you is, Archer  can be tanky when you put  tons of stats in health ( Which does not make Archer the most tanky char in game.) because every char can tank better than Archer if you have tons of health.  Example, Look at the video above!

 

Overall, Archer is not a broken char. instead, when play archer or against archer, its very simple. Kill or be kill! Either you can kill Archer, or you cant ( with archer its rarely depend on luck.) When an archer can tank you, she WILL tank you, because of her high evasion buffs + from other buffs + health. She  WILL tank you. On the other hand, if you can kill her with 1 hit ( usually Archer's base) She WILL DIED most of the time.

Other can survive base on her health and evasion, she  if her health  is enough to tank 1 hit from you, dont expect to kill her anytime soon. And when you can kill her with 1 hit, she will be dead.

And the buffs, can be cast/given to any other chars, so its not only archer can take advantage of that. ( I think you suppose to know about this the most...)

 

In case you still havent understand, let me give you some example with Archer VS Knight, in an x1.

Pure Health vs Pure health: 

Archer with pure health will deals damage ~ 2k-2k3. If you can survive the distance running to her, You win!!!  because when you can touch her, even with 1/2 of the double crash, she will be dead.

Health vs pure: ( This is why you said Archer is so broken char.)

Well, Archer has tons of health to be able to tank. That mean she sacrifice tons of damage to get that health ( which is very simple and balance, and you can do it with any chars, video above prove it a ks with full health can tank 4,5 Archer  15x-16x with very nice items.) By putting this much health in a char, ofc Archer going to be tanky, but talking about the damage, most of people just only look at either how much damage an archer has or how tanky an archer an be, but there is no such thing you have to sacrifice something in order to gain something back. An archer with 100 health will have much better damage than an archer with 500 health, and an archer with 500 health will be a lot tankier than an archer with 100 health. ( Simple logic!.)

 

This is my opinion, if you have any other opinion  then let me know, im more than happy to make you understand about an archer more.

Ti'

 

 

[Saikan1 64]

hah, this topic is funny... "as is the weakest tanking char in game" do you really think so? for sure, the most common build for archers is thales + shield bsol that's why you are saying that she's the weakest but, remember that she can still wear armor + shield and deals tons of damage. actually this char is so broken that it can wear armor + shield use tons of health points and still have a huge damage output.

[HollyShot 1,003]

I admire the class kinight cry for class archer. This is so noob.

[HollyShot 1,003]

 

I would like to understand how a kina tanca two fighter, a mechanic and an archer 162 and still kills. It seems to me that the cry for archery is only a question of childishness.

 

 

[christopher 100]

1 hour ago, Saikan1 said:

hah, this topic is funny... "as is the weakest tanking char in game" do you really think so? for sure, the most common build for archers is thales + shield bsol that's why you are saying that she's the weakest but, remember that she can still wear armor + shield and deals tons of damage. actually this char is so broken that it can wear armor + shield use tons of health points and still have a huge damage output.

 

i beg the different,

First, the most common build for archer is cuepy + shield 120  ( both bsol). 

There is no way, the archer can have damage. NO WAY. Archer with armor+shield +health or even without  armor+ shield, Archer still need tons of health point to be able to tank 1 hit from other chars. The only build that archer can deals massive damage is with pure health and without  armor+ shield. But, with that build Archer will get kills by 1 most of the time ( unless its miss all.)

*Armor + shield mean armor + shield 140+22 or bsol.

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by christopher

[christopher 100]

17 minutes ago, christopher said:

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by christopher

[Saikan1 64]

well, I know very well what I'm saying. just a simple question, have you ever tried? I did and the result was incredible.

[DarkLink64 921]

Math is a heck of a lovely science!

You can prove everything with it.

Lets do a little test, shall we?

Evasion: 
23% Passive T4
26% Phoenix Speed

15% Draxos

10% Champion

11% Triumph of Valhalla

5% Evasion Scroll

 

Block:

43% Shield 90HP 14%Block Mix

6% Thales Armor

 

First and for all, let me teach how to calculate multiplicatively stacks like Evasion. Each Evasion source equals 1.00 - Evasion. So it becomes like this:

 

0,77 * 0,74 * 0,85 * 0,90 * 0,89 * 0,95 = 0,36, substract 100 - 36 = 64% TOTAL Evasion Chance.
 

64% Evasion.
Block stacks additively, so it is, 49% Block chance.

 

Hit Chance = 0,36 * 0,51 = 0,18. We have only 18% chance of hitting an Archer. This is disregarding All Defense. 

 

Lets make an average of 4000 Defense for Archer, and a Knight like mine using Double Crash. I have 2145 Attack Rating, with Holy Aura + Double Crash, it goes up to 3003 Attack Rating.

I don't know If I can expose the formula publicity, but the calculated defense chance, where the range of Level difference would be less than 4, the actual defend chance is: 

24,9%.

 

Some archers could use armors and Defense mix on any of her given acessory set, this value could raise to above than 5000. 

If Defense is 5000, chance would be:

39,94%.

 

In this case, the added defend chance is higher than 6% Block of Thales Armor.

 

But lets keep with math using base 4000 Defense:

 

64% Evasion

49% Block

24,9% Defense Vs Double Crash (this value isnt fixed, it depends on skill and class)

 

Hit Chance on Archer = 0,36 * 0,51 * 0,751 = 0,137, that means, only 13,7% chance of hitting this frigging Archer.

 

 

 

Archers can have builds with special mixes and gears to pump enough HP to survive a single hit. Archers runs fast and pot faster aswell, so they can somehow survive if they play smartly. I've spotted some Arches that even survive a Critical hit + a normal hit from myself. So, the chances of hitting two criticals on an archer is QUITE low.

 

The chance of hittin an archer Twice is just 7,4%. The chance of double critical on both hits is roughly about 4%.

 

 

[DarkLink64 921]

I dont accept any reply like "play archer, play x, do y".  I do only accept valid formulas and calculation as any argument. 

 

[christopher 100]

 

57 minutes ago, Saikan1 said:

well, I know very well what I'm saying. just a simple question, have you ever tried? I did and the result was incredible.

when you put tons of health in strength, and health then you will have less agility which = less damage.

[DarkLink64 921]

OH I've almost forgot - to calculate the other way around.
 

Archer Attacking a Knight like mine.

Archer Attack Rating With Force of Nature + Scowt Hawk + Phoenix speed is, on average, 5500. My Knight with Sacred Star and Drastic Spirit have 7627 defense.

Calculated Defend Chance of my Knight is: 27,8%

 

Evasion:

15% Draxos

10% Champion

11% Triumph of Valhalla

5% Evasion Scroll

 

0,85 * 0,90 * 0,89 * 0,95 = 0,64. 100 - 64 = 36

 

Final Evasion: 36%

 

 

Block:

40% Shield +22

4% Divine Shield

 

Final Block 44%

 

Hit Chance = 0,39 * 0,56 * 0,722 = 0,165

 

16,5% chance of Archer, the "not broken" char versus Knight, the "tank broken".

 

But hey, a Knight attacking Archer has actual LESS chance of hiting! 13,7%!

How it can be? Archers are supposed to be Fragile! And much like Archers, any Knight will die with 1 Critical Phoenix Shot + 1 non-Phoenix shot! How can a crappy Thales Armor Archer tank better than a Knight full  140?

 

OH MY GOD! I MUST BE VERY NEWB!!!!!!!

But hey, does Knight run that fast? They pot fast? Then can hit people from afar? They can use Perforation from afar? They can Stun people from afar? They have Archer attack speed? They can pot between each DC/GC hit? Nope, they can not. 

And, in the end of the day, math wins.


And it is a match up vs Knight, one of a hell strong class. What about everyone else, like Pike, Fighter, Atalanta, etc? Hahaha you guys are lame.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by DarkLink64

[christopher 100]

10 minutes ago, DarkLink64 said:

Math is a heck of a lovely science!

You can prove everything with it.

Lets do a little test, shall we?

Evasion: 
23% Passive T4
26% Phoenix Speed

15% Draxos

10% Champion

11% Triumph of Valhalla

5% Evasion Scroll

 

Block:

43% Shield 90HP 14%Block Mix

6% Thales Armor

 

First and for all, let me teach how to calculate multiplicatively stacks like Evasion. Each Evasion source equals 1.00 - Evasion. So it becomes like this:

 

0,77 * 0,74 * 0,85 * 0,90 * 0,89 * 0,95 = 0,36, substract 100 - 36 = 64% TOTAL Evasion Chance.
 

64% Evasion.
Block stacks additively, so it is, 49% Block chance.

 

Hit Chance = 0,36 * 0,51 = 0,18. We have only 18% chance of hitting an Archer. This is disregarding All Defense. 

 

Lets make an average of 4000 Defense for Archer, and a Knight like mine using Double Crash. I have 2145 Attack Rating, with Holy Aura + Double Crash, it goes up to 3003 Attack Rating.

I don't know If I can expose the formula publicity, but the calculated defense chance, where the range of Level difference would be less than 4, the actual defend chance is: 

24,9%.

 

Some archers could use armors and Defense mix on any of her given acessory set, this value could raise to above than 5000. 

If Defense is 5000, chance would be:

39,94%.

 

In this case, the added defend chance is higher than 6% Block of Thales Armor.

 

But lets keep with math using base 4000 Defense:

 

64% Evasion

49% Block

24,9% Defense Vs Double Crash (this value isnt fixed, it depends on skill and class)

 

Hit Chance on Archer = 0,36 * 0,51 * 0,751 = 0,137, that means, only 13,7% chance of hitting this frigging Archer.

 

 

 

Archers can have builds with special mixes and gears to pump enough HP to survive a single hit. Archers runs fast and pot faster aswell, so they can somehow survive if they play smartly. I've spotted some Arches that even survive a Critical hit + a normal hit from myself. So, the chances of hitting two criticals on an archer is QUITE low.

 

The chance of hittin an archer Twice is just 7,4%. The chance of double critical on both hits is roughly about 4%.

 

 

First, not everybody uses thales ( very rarely see an archer use thales.)

evasion, the only thing you can count in is Archer's passive and phoenix speed, because the rest everybody can have access to it.

the same goes with your block section.

 About the block and evasion %, i never said that archer are weak on those, but remember Archer has one of the lowest hp pool out of every character, and one of the lowest defense due to not using armor and shield. So the only chance for an archer to survive is by her evasion and block.

about the archer defense, most of archer use standard items like shield 120 bsol, cuepy mix has defense 3k ( with 2 handed)  and ~ 3k3 with shield. I do not know how you can get an archer defense up to 5k.

* for the formular that you post publicly, we can not discuss anything because only you has the knowlege.

Archer can builds tons of hp, thats my whole point. An archer that build tons of hp will sacrifice a lot of damage. So,  Archer is not broken, because she have to sacrifice something in order to gain something else.

[christopher 100]

7 minutes ago, DarkLink64 said:

OH I've almost forgot - to calculate the other way around.
 

Archer Attacking a Knight like mine.

Archer Attack Rating With Force of Nature + Scowt Hawk + Phoenix speed is, on average, 5500. My Knight with Sacred Star and Drastic Spirit have 7627 defense.

Calculated Defend Chance of my Knight is: 27,8%

 

Evasion:

15% Draxos

10% Champion

11% Triumph of Valhalla

5% Evasion Scroll

 

0,85 * 0,90 * 0,89 * 0,95 = 0,64. 100 - 64 = 36

 

Final Evasion: 36%

 

 

Block:

40% Shield +22

4% Divine Shield

 

Final Block 44%

 

Hit Chance = 0,39 * 0,56 * 0,722 = 0,165

 

16,5% chance of Archer, the "not broken" char versus Knight, the "tank broken".

 

But hey, a Knight attacking Archer has actual LESS chance of hiting! 13,7%!

How it can be? Archers are supposed to be Fragile! And much like Archers, any Knight will die with 1 Critical Phoenix Shot + 1 non-Phoenix shot! How can a crappy Thales Armor Archer tank better than a Knight full  140?

 

OH MY GOD! I MUST BE VERY NEWB!!!!!!!

But hey, does Knight run that fast? They pot fast? Then can hit people from afar? They can use Perforation from afar? They can Stun people from afar? They have Archer attack speed? They can pot between each DC/GC hit? Nope, they can not. 

And, in the end of the day, math wins.


And it is a match up vs Knight, one of a hell strong class. What about everyone else, like Pike, Fighter, Atalanta, etc? Hahaha you guys are lame.

 

 

Archer are fragile, because only does not have defense, abs nor health. Archer can only survive base on their evasion!

and like i said, with base hp, its take AS 2 phoenix shots to kill KS ( if both of them connect.) But with KS, all its need is 1/2 of DC to kill a base hp archer.

Knight dont have the atk rate. If you have to have atk rate, goes build 800 points into agility to get the atk rate like archer. On the other hands, KS will have more health. defense and abs because by putting points into strength, these 3 factors goes up as well. Archer can stun people from far away, but thats why GM already nerd AS's stun by its can be miss, unlike KS' stun where you can have an aoe stun for a long period of time, and you have the advantage of first hit after the stun. Talking about pot, yes archer can pot between phoenix, but like a said" unlike FS, or PS, or KS, they have killer skills ( DT, DP, SM.) what does archer has? only Phoenix Shot, so ofc GM will make Phoenix shot stronger than AC, DC, and CL, because thats the only way an archer can deal damage.

and, in the end of the day, skills win. math can only help you so far, the rest is up to your skills.

[christopher 100]

I do not care how much  math you bring into this table, compare a KS vs an Archer. The ks will win if you know how to play it right.

[DarkLink64 921]

10 minutes ago, christopher said:

First, not everybody uses thales ( very rarely see an archer use thales.)

evasion, the only thing you can count in is Archer's passive and phoenix speed, because the rest everybody can have access to it.

the same goes with your block section.

 About the block and evasion %, i never said that archer are weak on those, but remember Archer has one of the lowest hp pool out of every character, and one of the lowest defense due to not using armor and shield. So the only chance for an archer to survive is by her evasion and block.

about the archer defense, most of archer use standard items like shield 120 bsol, cuepy mix has defense 3k ( with 2 handed)  and ~ 3k3 with shield. I do not know how you can get an archer defense up to 5k.

* for the formular that you post publicly, we can not discuss anything because only you has the knowlege.

Archer can builds tons of hp, thats my whole point. An archer that build tons of hp will sacrifice a lot of damage. So,  Archer is not broken, because she have to sacrifice something in order to gain something else.

 

Any archer with Armor can easily achieve 5k Defense. 
If you consider every character with all best gears possible, and +22 Shield and Armor, they have EASILY 6000 defense and more with Sacred Star.

Defense formula is the same to everyone else - Its just stacked value of item defense values + the actual Agility and Talent added defense.

Archers have high Agility, so, in a base comparison, they will have a bit more base Defense than anyone else when using Armor and Shield +22.

If you put an Armor on Archer, they can EASILY hit 5000, even considering their 140 Shield with Block HP mix. The armor alone would give 3119 Defense. Put the agility/talent defense, all the gears, acessory and their respective mix + sacred Star, its easy to hit the 5000 defense mark. 

The story of Archer HP is bull crap.


All vitality you need is to tank a single strong hit. Its public common knowledge that its easy to achieve this aumont of HP using HP mixes on Shields, some acessory and even armor itself. 

 

The damage does indeed get reduced, but, it is still ENOUGH to deal a heck of a damage, enough to kill on two Critical Phoenix Shots.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by DarkLink64

[christopher 100]

Just now, DarkLink64 said:

 

Any archer with Armor can easily achieve 5k Defense. 
If you consider every character with all best gears possible, and +22 Shield and Armor, they have EASILY 6000 defense and more with Sacred Star.

Defense formula is the same to everyone else - Its just stacked value of item defense values + the actual Agility and Talent added defense.

Archers have high Agility, so, in a base comparison, they will have a bit more base Defense than anyone else when using Armor and Shield +22.

If you put an Armor on Archer, they can EASILY hit 5000, even considering their 140 Shield with Block HP mix. The armor alone would give 3119 Defense. Put the agility/talent defense, all the gears, acessory and their respective mix + sacred Star, its easy to hit the 5000 defense mark. 

The story of Archer is bull crap.


All vitality you need is to tank a single strong hit. Its public common knowledge that its easy to achieve this aumont of HP using HP mixes on Shields, some acessory and even armor itself. 

 

The damage does indeed get reduced, but, it is still ENOUGH to deal a heck of a damage, enough to kill on two Critical Phoenix Shots.

 

 

Any archer with armor will never deal massive damage!

Archer's damage is not broken  because an archer main damage  are come from agility, unlike KS their main damage come from strength. Archer can not sacrifice too much point into strength, health, and agility at the same time. ( and thats a disadvantage of a range class.) Thats why you rarely see an archer using armor 140 because an archer need to sacrifice atleast another 100 point into strength to wear the armor, so instead they use put that much points into health to bring the hp up. on the other hand, every other melee chars wear armor 140 and shield 140 because  their main damage come from strength, and by putting as much as into strength their defense and abs also goes up.

 

The amount of health you put in archer depends on your armor/ shield mix or age, if your items mix ( which has a lot of hp.) you do not need much point into your health. But, with hp mix , an archer does not have a lot of defense + abs, which  if you dont have enough point in health you still can be kill by 1 hit.

On the other hand, if an archer use armor/shield  age ( which an archer has tons of defense and abs.) But, with that defense and abs, the base hp only has 1.3-1.4k hp ( with hp.)  how can an archer with 1.3 to 1.4hp tank?