About Magician's PvP

[DarkLink64 921]

It's nothing new that Wartale's PvP enviroment is super unstable and under a strong storm. 

And it is easy to draw a line explaining why PvP isn't that good anymore:

Most of the time, attacks get Defended, Blocked or Evaded. But when they land, the damage is significantly low, but when they land and perform a critical hit, the damage is often enough to burst down players in one single hit, or, if not on a single hit, the remaining HP is quite low.

The other aspect that became a problem as a consequence of high miss rate, high damage output, is AoE damage.

AoE skills, to be fair, started to be a problem when Wartale's exping meta was only based on Party Play over Death Island, Cursed Temple 3 or exp maps. Then, SL got released and the primary hunting and exp method was AoE killing on the HS.

Untill recent changes and Shadow Sanctuary release being a 1v1 focused map, a good class was decided on how strong it was on AoE killing. 

Over the course of the time, all character's AoE skill got improved so they could became viable on PvE. Then, out of sudden, we have multipliers on many AoE skills that are much higher than their 1v1 counterpart. To be honest, what makes 1v1 skills strong is the fact that most of the time they deal at least 2 hits and can critically strike. Otherwise, AoE damage is way too strong than any 1v1 skill.

As a consequence, said skills became too strong on PvP, and a quick fix was done - halving those skills damage on PvP.

Magician experienced a sudden change on it's performance when Magic classes got their formulas changed to be based on multipliers, and the chance of dealing crits.
After this change, Magician performace got really unstable. Magician is a problematic class on Wartale History and is also problematic on any PT server.

He was somewhat okay before the formula change, but, after it, his AoE became really strong, and then, Meteor and Stone Spike got halved on PvP.

Death Ray missed a lot, however, with old amplify, normal hits dealt so much damage that could burst down any squishy classes, and a critical Death Ray was Death "Sentence" to any class, dealing over 3 to 4k of damage.

Another quick fix was done, Amplify didn't gave any final 1v1 dmg boost,  and it's critical damage was reduced to 20% instead of 70%. Then, magician was left forgotten for some years. But, some of his AoE left unchanged.


How to improve Magician?

First, the necessary "nerfs".

1. Halve all his remaining AoE skills on PvP - Fireball (Tier 1) and Diastrophism (Tier 3).
Magicians are dominating and being super oppresive on Siege War because of it's Diastrophism. Diastrophism also deas 2 hits per cast, a Hidden effect that snowballed his power on Siege War.

It is hard to come and punish a Magician because he can cast Diastrophism alongise Distortion, slowing you down, and reducing your attack. An isolated duel of any class vs a Magician with Distortion and Diastrophism spam is extremely in favour for the Magician itself. The reduced damage allows Magician's to survive any one hit-kill potential, and the slow reduces two-hit kill potential because magician can use pot between hits being dealt against him.

On a crowded situation, if two magicians gather togheter, It is literally impossible to any melee class punish magician at close range. The two hit multiplied by number of magicians scales so high and it's too much damage without counterplay.

Squishy characters like Assassin, Archers and Atalantas, can receive up to 800 damage on a single Diastrophism, and 800 damage means half of their HP on average. And this 800 damage is unavoidable.

2. Add Poison Element to Distortion. 
Currently Distortion doesnt have any element attached to it. So, once cast, everyone on it's vicinity is slowed down for a very long time. Also two magician's can permanently cast Distortion on any player around them.

When having an element attached, Elemental Resistance can work as a natural counter for such an powerfull skill. Poison Elemental Resistance should reduce Distortion Duration and reduce the Attack Damage debuff.

For example, a level 10 Distortion reduces your speed by 22%, for full 15 seconds, where it's base cooldown is 17.5. With Feather, it comes down to  15 seconds. It is always on.

With 50 Poison Resistance, Distortion would last for 7.5 seconds, making it a lot harder for permanent Distortion with two magicians.

Also, the key reason adding Poison Element instead of Organic Element is because of Mechanician's Passive. If Mechanicians level up his Passive, they'll reach maximum 80 Elemental Resistance and be affected by Distortion for just 3 seconds, allowing Mechanicians to become the Magician's natural Counter, since he will be able to punish a group of Magician's spamming Distortion.


Now, the super necessary Improvment changes.

1. Make Amplify an Active Skill with Passive Effect. Active Buff would grant Magician's his old 1v1 Final Damage. Passively, it still adds Attack Rating.
When Amplify is actively casted, Magician will receive a Buff and Debuff:

Buff: Increases his 1v1 Final Damage.
Debuff: Drastically reduces Duration and Effectiveness of Distortion.

The goal is to allow Magician to be a true 1v1 damage dealer when going 2 hands, on the same level of Archer, Pikeman and Fighter. The problem is, he have acess to a point-click skill that will remain too strong, even with elemental resistance. Magician's being  a strong 1v1 powerhouse should come with downsides - and I believe lowering his Distortion Effectiveness is a fair trade-off.

Values:
1v1 Final Damage should allow Magician's Death Ray to reach the very same Damage Output of an Archer using Phoenix Shot and Solar Shot.
In order to make Magician's damage to be the same of Archer's, Archer should be on her normal, standard 2 Handed bow with 144 Armor build, with base health, and Magicians should also be using his 144 Robe, 2 Handed Staff.

Distortion Debuff: Effectiveness is reduced by 50%. Duration would be halved, so does the Speed debuff.


2. Improve his Death Ray Attack Rating.

Magicians should have the same overall Attack Rating of an Archer while using Phoenix Speed.

Again, the goal Attack Rating should be obtained with Robe + Level 144 2 Handed Staff, with spec Attack Rating/1.

The extra Attack Rating should be given on his Death Ray extra Attack Rating.

3. Firebolt (Tier 1) should apply Enchant Weapon on-hit effects.
Enchant Weapon effects are only applyed when using default attacks. So, on a real scenario, only Auto Mechs make use of these effects.

The idea is to make Firebolt, a weaker 1v1 Attack compared to DeathRay, to have this ability to proc On-Hit effects of Enchant Weapon.

The goal is for Magician to aim re-casting Enchant Weapon untill he gets an Ice Enchant, then keep using Firebolt as a weaker damage dealing skill but at the same time, slowing enemies down.



Magician is a class hard to balance, but I believe it is possible if we normalize the class around another class (Archer) and then make small tweaks.

Magicians with the same Attack Rating and Damage Output of an Archer is a good starting point. Then, he can be improved even more if he does have a harder time to survive compared to an Archer, or toned down if Energy Shield coupled with high orb Defense proves to be too much of tanking capabilities with high damage output.

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by DarkLink64

[kamuynoturno 291]

It's nothing new that Wartale's PvP enviroment is super unstable and under a strong storm. 

And it is easy to draw a line explaining why PvP isn't that good anymore:

Most of the time, attacks get Defended, Blocked or Evaded. But when they land, the damage is significantly low, but when they land and perform a critical hit, the damage is often enough to burst down players in one single hit, or, if not on a single hit, the remaining HP is quite low.

The other aspect that became a problem as a consequence of high miss rate, high damage output, is AoE damage.

AoE skills, to be fair, started to be a problem when Wartale's exping meta was only based on Party Play over Death Island, Cursed Temple 3 or exp maps. Then, SL got released and the primary hunting and exp method was AoE killing on the HS.

Untill recent changes and Shadow Sanctuary release being a 1v1 focused map, a good class was decided on how strong it was on AoE killing. 

Over the course of the time, all character's AoE skill got improved so they could became viable on PvE. Then, out of sudden, we have multipliers on many AoE skills that are much higher than their 1v1 counterpart. To be honest, what makes 1v1 skills strong is the fact that most of the time they deal at least 2 hits and can critically strike. Otherwise, AoE damage is way too strong than any 1v1 skill.

As a consequence, said skills became too strong on PvP, and a quick fix was done - halving those skills damage on PvP.

Magician experienced a sudden change on it's performance when Magic classes got their formulas changed to be based on multipliers, and the chance of dealing crits.
After this change, Magician performace got really unstable. Magician is a problematic class on Wartale History and is also problematic on any PT server.

He was somewhat okay before the formula change, but, after it, his AoE became really strong, and then, Meteor and Stone Spike got halved on PvP.

Death Ray missed a lot, however, with old amplify, normal hits dealt so much damage that could burst down any squishy classes, and a critical Death Ray was Death "Sentence" to any class, dealing over 3 to 4k of damage.

Another quick fix was done, Amplify didn't gave any final 1v1 dmg boost,  and it's critical damage was reduced to 20% instead of 70%. Then, magician was left forgotten for some years. But, some of his AoE left unchanged.

How to improve Magician?

1. Halve all his remaining AoE skills on PvP - Fireball (Tier 1) and Diastrophism (Tier 3).
Magicians are dominating and being super oppresive on Siege War because of it's Diastrophism

Edited July 28, 2020 by kamuynoturno

[Morty 68]

1 minute ago, kamuynoturno said:

Nerf fireball

[kamuynoturno 291]

I'll tell you a Secret, the problem is not the wizard or any other class, the problem is that you give up easy and do not want to learn from mistakes

[Rakhay07 24]

Oh, magician is the nerf whine this week 

 

There we go

[DarkLink64 921]

Writing done.

[Morty 68]

Kom won last siege war with only two magicians. U need learn to lose and try improve your clan.

 

 

 

[kamuynoturno 291]

I would like to point out that the KOM wins SW with 2 mage against more than 8 mages, the PVP Problem is not the magician , because it is very easy to neutralize wizards in SW, I repeat what I said in another Topic, Mage years is used only for leveling, nowadays was started to be used by some in PVP and already begins crying for NERF , are accustomed to Ask nerf than learn to play against, I'm already seeing the Day that will ask for one player can not attack the other During SW

[Merenda 778]

Another Siege War change...

 

We are going on the path of removing Siege War x.x'

[DarkLink64 921]

18 minutes ago, Merenda said:

Another Siege War change...

 

We are going on the path of removing Siege War x.x'

 

7 hours ago, Merenda said:

As for Siege War, it is almost unbelievable that an Archer 16x score 7 ~ 10x less than a Mage 148. Unfortunately, the reality of the class today is this.

 

Ỳou've explained yourself the very reason Magician's AoE should be toned down.

And I agree with you. It is unbelievable that a Magician 14x can kill so much and rarely dies by just spamming two skills - Diastrophism and Distortion - two skill that doesnt require a target, and a strategy that is so brain-dead easy and simple without any counterplay that a child at age of 3 can replicate.

But toning down his AoE means bringing back his 1v1.  Archer land hits more often than most other classes, and deals one of the highest 1v1 damage at PvP. I think it's fair for Magician to have the very same 1v1 performance of Archer as a STARTING POINT.

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by DarkLink64

[Merenda 778]

4 minutes ago, DarkLink64 said:

 

 

Ỳou've explained yourself the very reason Magician's AoE should be toned down.

And I agree with you. It is unbelievable that a Magician 14x can kill so much and rarely dies by just spamming two skills - Diastrophism and Distortion - two skill that doesnt require a target, and a strategy that is so brain-dead easy and simple without any counterplay that a child at age of 3 can replicate.

 

 

Yeah, asking for balance of the weakest, not nerfing the others. We don't need another dead class.

 

Losing is part of the fun of the game, at the end of the day, we're all here to have fun.

 

Chill = ^ --- ^ =

[vihh 62]

DL CRY ?

[Coyy 79]

Ss + mg really OP 

[Morty 68]

 

Contemplem!

Edited July 29, 2020 by Morty

[Molaxx 355]

Honestly darklink?

If you write in your topic that mage is the worst class of the game in PVP and that it needs to hit the same as all 1v1 melees,
 and the earthquake nerf I even absolut NO NO NO NO NO .

But if you think about it ... "They are the beings with the most destructive power in the game" ....

Now, then, is he not doing what is in his description? I'm just using the wizard feature here ...

It is unthinkable for a magician without DMG, but it is unthinkable to remove the mage's destruction characteristic as well.

It's the only class that takes ANYTHING out of the PVP in AOE skill, and that's not all (I take 89 damage from a 158+ full
 buff).

I believe that MG today is 89% balanced.

It will be balanced when the Ray of Death hits 1x1.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Molaxx

[Potetenn 55]

imagine having balanced classes in pvp on wartale, see you in another 10 years

kekw.

[gabrilao 25]

Please @Wartale, back the old and fun PVP, the one before the 5142 patch.

The old pvp that all classes could kill, including MG, AS and ATA. Now only meele is killing, SO boring.

This kind of update makes a lot of ppl to play the game or/and become discouraged, including me.

Not funny game at all.

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by gabrilao
wrong vocabulary

[Seog 114]

2 months away and nothing changes.

DarkTeta and its craze for wanting to nerf the whole game.
Do yourself a favor, disappear.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Seog