Gravitation skill

[mastellini 632]

Hi a doubt light up when i see this on gravitation skill.
What is reflect damage? Is like Spark Shield skill? I never see damage reflected when use gravitation...

 

 

Edited Monday at 02:24 PM by mastellini

[Overlady 5,793]

Damage Reflected: The percentage of damage redirected from a party member to the Mechanician, after the damage is reduced by the party member's defensive stats.

Damage Absorbed: The percentage by which "Damage Reflected" is reduced before reaching the Mechanician, literally damage reduction.

 

Best,

Overlady

[ace1 387]

25 minutes ago, Overlady said:

Damage Reflected: The percentage of damage redirected from a party member to the Mechanician, after the damage is reduced by the party member's defensive stats.

Damage Absorbed: The percentage by which "Damage Reflected" is reduced before reaching the Mechanician, literally damage reduction.

 

Best,

Overlady

Interesting. It basically allows more party members to go 2hand... in fact it's a damage booster skill.

[TadsK 328]

18 minutes ago, ace1 said:

Interesting. It basically allows more party members to go 2hand... in fact it's a damage booster skill.

Technically, yes. But try to use that skill and survive while tanking that kind of damage from 5 other people haha

 

It is not easy to be able to use that skill and survive; because the damage is so high on other people.

 

It also means you won’t be able to do damage since you are trying so hard not to die. 

 

It is very situational. It can be very strong, but it is hard to manage. Try that in sunken and see if you can press your potion quick enough to survive the skill from the first two bosses when it hits your entire team XD

 

The concept is cool, but balancing it is very hard.

 

52 minutes ago, Overlady said:

Damage Reflected: The percentage of damage redirected from a party member to the Mechanician, after the damage is reduced by the party member's defensive stats.

Damage Absorbed: The percentage by which "Damage Reflected" is reduced before reaching the Mechanician, literally damage reduction.

 

Best,

Overlady

Thanks for clarifying. I always wondered if MS would absorb 20% of the damage, but I see this is the damage reduction.

 

Let’s say a boss does 500 damage on everyone else in your group, that is 2500 damage, which will translate into 1250 - 20% = 1000 damage to the mech per hit.

 

It is very meaningful to your teammates to take only 250 instead of 500, but the cost to make it work is hard.

 

Would it make sense if it was based on the mechs defenses somehow? 
 

Agin, very hard to balance because you want this to have a meaningful downside, without being too overpowered, but the way it is now it feels like nobody utilizes it except for some niche cases, which defeats the purpose. 

It would probably be way more useful if the mech shared 20% of its abs with team members or something, as a buff.

 

or maybe tweak the damage absorbed stats so it is not just a death sentence anymore, or the mech needs to be full bit and potting nonstop, which is super boring. 

 

Can you tell us a little bit more from your internal testing experience? Thanks! 

[mastellini 632]

42 minutes ago, TadsK said:

It is very situational. It can be very strong, but it is hard to manage.

yes, i only use in hellfire with max 2 players melee in party, more than that can easily kill me

 

42 minutes ago, TadsK said:

Try that in sunken and see if you can press your potion quick enough to survive

yes, in this cases with area damage hit all party members = dead xD

Edited Monday at 05:24 PM by mastellini

[Overlady 5,793]

7 minutes ago, TadsK said:

Technically, yes. But try to use that skill and survive while tanking that kind of damage from 5 other people haha

 

It is not easy to be able to use that skill and survive; because the damage is so high on other people.

 

It also means you won’t be able to do damage since you are trying so hard not to die. 

 

It is very situational. It can be very strong, but it is hard to manage. Try that in sunken and see if you can press your potion quick enough to survive the skill from the first two bosses when it hits your entire team XD

 

The concept is cool, but balancing it is very hard.

 

Thanks for clarifying. I always wondered if MS would absorb 20% of the damage, but I see this is the damage reduction.

 

Let’s say a boss does 500 damage on everyone else in your group, that is 2500 damage, which will translate into 1250 - 20% = 1000 damage to the mech per hit.

 

It is very meaningful to your teammates to take only 250 instead of 500, but the cost to make it work is hard.

 

Would it make sense if it was based on the mechs defenses somehow? 
 

Agin, very hard to balance because you want this to have a meaningful downside, without being too overpowered, but the way it is now it feels like nobody utilizes it except for some niche cases, which defeats the purpose. 

It would probably be way more useful if the mech shared 20% of its abs with team members or something, as a buff.

 

or maybe tweak the damage absorbed stats so it is not just a death sentence anymore, or the mech needs to be full bit and potting nonstop, which is super boring. 

 

Can you tell us a little bit more from your internal testing experience? Thanks! 

The damage taken by the Mechanic depends on the party members' defense. If we added more reduction/absorb stages, it’s possible that the damage received by the Mechanic, and certain party members(aka brawler and knight) with high damage reduction and absorption, would be as low as "1."

In the last balance, we experimented with reducing the skill duration to 20 seconds, increasing the cooldown, lowering the reflected amount and significantly increasing the damage reduction for the Mechanician. Making the skill very useful in boss fights and instances, but making it not so useful in the rest of the game. For that reason, we decided to scrap the change.

 

Best,

Overlady

[Only1Hand 28]

Currently, this skill is useless for the mech. If you use it with party members who have low defense, such as archers or Atalante, you die quickly.

This skill needs a rework or should be transformed into a passive that adds absorption or something similar.

 

OBS: I'm a lvl 16x mech, full level 144, set boss 3, set 144 bsol, etc. If I use it at level 5+ in Sunken/LC/HC, I die easily, even with full tank.

[TadsK 328]

8 minutes ago, Overlady said:

The damage taken by the Mechanic depends on the party members' defense. If we added more reduction/absorb stages, it’s possible that the damage received by the Mechanic, and certain party members(aka brawler and knight) with high damage reduction and absorption, would be as low as "1."

In the last balance, we experimented with reducing the skill duration to 20 seconds, increasing the cooldown, lowering the reflected amount and significantly increasing the damage reduction for the Mechanician. Making the skill very useful in boss fights and instances, but making it not so useful in the rest of the game. For that reason, we decided to scrap the change.

 

Best,

Overlady

Thanks for sharing, it is great for all players to see all the hard work that happens behind the scenes and just how sometimes all that work needs to be scrapped and restarted.

 

Exactly as I said, it is very hard to balance this one without making some situations very overpowered, like making those other party members almost invincible or not having any drawbacks to the mechanician, meaning it is just a very strong buff.

 

This one is a hard one, there is always a caveat to any change.

 

It feels like reducing the reflected amount, allowing the Mech to provide SOME assistance, but at the same time not just killing himself, would be the best and easiest course of action at this stage.

 

I'd suggest 20-25% Damage Reflected and 30% Damage Absorbed. It seems like a good starting point. Making sure the mech still takes damage, party members still see some benefits, but not too much to make it unusable.

 

I've ran some crazy numbers here and this is the best I can come up right now xD

 

 

 

 

[ace1 387]

this skill needs something else.

 

it should firstly discount received dmg from mech's stmina, then from mechs's mana, and only then from mech's HP.

[manosalsa 638]

I've been using this skill from its launch and with character level 150, almost every dungeon and also in maps. In my opinion this skills is very strong in a lot of cases, but your party needs to play around it aswell. 

 

What I'd like to see as a form of change is: be able to use it while using maximize, so we can be able to do damage and also tank some damage for the party and an increase in the damage absorbed by the mechanician, so we don't die with hit kill on dungeons... And of course, that we don't need to be active (hitting mobs) for the skill to absorb damage from our party.

Edited Monday at 06:08 PM by manosalsa

[FredderickS 85]

2 hours ago, Overlady said:

The damage taken by the Mechanic depends on the party members' defense. If we added more reduction/absorb stages, it’s possible that the damage received by the Mechanic, and certain party members(aka brawler and knight) with high damage reduction and absorption, would be as low as "1."

In the last balance, we experimented with reducing the skill duration to 20 seconds, increasing the cooldown, lowering the reflected amount and significantly increasing the damage reduction for the Mechanician. Making the skill very useful in boss fights and instances, but making it not so useful in the rest of the game. For that reason, we decided to scrap the change.

 

Best,

Overlady

Hi, I've been playing this game for many years. I'm currently a game theory engineer.
 

First, I'd like to congratulate you all. I support the vast majority of patch changes and balance adjustments.
 

Guys, don't forget this almost golden rule:

1. YourSelf buffs are STRONG.
2. Party buffs are WEAK.
    

When I saw Gravitation, I knew it was destined to break the game (it's a strong defensive ability). It had to have some downside, and that's the punishment it inflicts on the mechanic. They can't defend or absorb reflected damage, even with VL.

But what you all thought would bring teamwork? Instead, it caused insults and offenses in the chat bar. If you die, you're a bad mechanic and useless. It's better not to use it and let your team die.Except in situations where there's a good team, this ability shines and can become incredibly powerful.

Solutions

 

Option 1
If you don't want many changes
Gravitation is automatically disabled if your health is Below 50%.
 

Option 2
Weakened Gravitation (I recommend this)
Reflected Damage reduced from 50% to 25%
Absorbed Damage can be reduced from 20% to 15% or this Trigger can be removed so the mechanic can absorb based on their own defense.
 

Option 3
Enhanced Gravitation
add instant cast
Increase cooldown to 120 sec
Reduce duration to 20 sec
Gravitation is automatically disabled if your health is Below 50%.

Edited Monday at 07:09 PM by FredderickS

[Overlady 5,793]

1 hour ago, FredderickS said:

Hi, I've been playing this game for many years. I'm currently a game theory engineer.
 

First, I'd like to congratulate you all. I support the vast majority of patch changes and balance adjustments.
 

Guys, don't forget this almost golden rule:

1. YourSelf buffs are STRONG.
2. Party buffs are WEAK.
    

When I saw Gravitation, I knew it was destined to break the game (it's a strong defensive ability). It had to have some downside, and that's the punishment it inflicts on the mechanic. They can't defend or absorb reflected damage, even with VL.

But what you all thought would bring teamwork? Instead, it caused insults and offenses in the chat bar. If you die, you're a bad mechanic and useless. It's better not to use it and let your team die.Except in situations where there's a good team, this ability shines and can become incredibly powerful.

Solutions

 

Option 1
If you don't want many changes
Gravitation is automatically disabled if your health is Below 50%.
 

Option 2
Weakened Gravitation (I recommend this)
Reflected Damage reduced from 50% to 25%
Absorbed Damage can be reduced from 20% to 15% or this Trigger can be removed so the mechanic can absorb based on their own defense.
 

Option 3
Enhanced Gravitation
add instant cast
Increase cooldown to 120 sec
Reduce duration to 20 sec
Gravitation is automatically disabled if your health is Below 50%.

Option 3 is actually what we did in our internal playtest. If you guys are interested, we can review it again and maybe bring it back in the future.

 

Best,

Overlady

[Only1Hand 28]

21 minutes ago, Overlady said:

Option 3 is actually what we did in our internal playtest. If you guys are interested, we can review it again and maybe bring it back in the future.

 

Best,

Overlady

Is it possible to back the burning to the mechanic bomb skill? Like before...

[Overlady 5,793]

3 minutes ago, Only1Hand said:

Is it possible to back the burning to the mechanic bomb skill? Like before...

No. Burning isn't great for party play because it doesn't stack, only the highest damage instance is active at a time (aka Flame Wave). We also don't want the Mechanician to focus too much on DoT, he already has two skills for it and doesn't need a third

 

Best,

Overlady

[mastellini 632]

6 minutes ago, Overlady said:

No. Burning isn't great for party play because it doesn't stack, only the highest damage instance is active at a time (aka Flame Wave). We also don't want the Mechanician to focus too much on DoT, he already has two skills for it and doesn't need a third

 

Best,

Overlady

maybe a skill can help mech lure? idk some debuff in pack of mobs or a way to group all mobs fast or mech bomb decrease fire res etc

Edited Monday at 09:13 PM by mastellini

[Overlady 5,793]

13 minutes ago, mastellini said:

maybe a skill can help mech lure? idk some debuff in pack of mobs or a way to group all mobs fast

Well, Compulsion kinda works like that to force monsters towards you, at least within their range. If you're talking about forcing ranged monsters to your location, back when we had one skill slot left for the Mechanician, we tested something similar to the "Centlon Pull". However, the Mechanician already had too many tank skills, and we ended up keeping Obliterate. If I remember correctly, we also considered moving that skill to Pikeman, but it didn't fit his gameplay style, so we replaced his older skill (shadow clone, and a ranged ice attack) with Vorpal Dive instead.

 

Best,

Overlady

[mastellini 632]

6 minutes ago, Overlady said:

Well, Compulsion kinda works like that to force monsters towards you, at least within their range. If you're talking about forcing ranged monsters to your location, back when we had one skill slot left for the Mechanician, we tested something similar to the "Centlon Pull". However, the Mechanician already had too many tank skills, and we ended up keeping Obliterate. If I remember correctly, we also considered moving that skill to Pikeman, but it didn't fit his gameplay style, so we replaced his older skill (shadow clone, and a ranged ice attack) with Vorpal Dive instead.

 

Best,

Overlady

It would be really cool to see a skill like that in the game, add that mob-pulling mechanic to the compulsion xD

[FredderickS 85]

 

1 hour ago, Overlady said:

Option 3 is actually what we did in our internal playtest. If you guys are interested, we can review it again and maybe bring it back in the future.

 

Best,

Overlady

Well, I respect the direction the developers want to take their game.

I imagine an Ultimate-type ability that could grant your party temporary invulnerability for a few seconds, maybe.

But currently, we have a Sui-ci-de-type ability that kills you to save your party. All that's missing is Whitney Houston's "I Will Always Love You" to make me feel like I'm in the movie "The Bodyguard."
 

Please fix this so the ability starts being used more. Gravitation is automatically disabled if your health is Below 50%. 

Note:
a damage bonus if it were of the ultimate type 

Edited Monday at 09:47 PM by FredderickS

[O2 4]

Há 4 horas, Overlady disse:

O dano recebido pelo Mecânico depende da defesa dos membros do grupo. Se adicionássemos mais estágios de redução/absorção, é possível que o dano recebido pelo Mecânico, e por certos membros do grupo (como o Lutador e o Cavaleiro) com alta redução e absorção de dano, fosse tão baixo quanto "1".

No último balanceamento, experimentamos reduzir a duração da habilidade para 20 segundos, aumentar o tempo de recarga, diminuir a quantidade de dano refletido e aumentar significativamente a redução de dano do Mecânico. Isso tornava a habilidade muito útil em lutas contra chefes e instâncias, mas não tão útil no restante do jogo. Por esse motivo, decidimos descartar a mudança.

 

Melhor,

Senhora Suprema

If the skill absorbs 20% of the damage from each party member, that doesn't mean it has to be completely distributed to the mechanic (raw damage). Simply reduce the damage received by the mechanic internally to 1/2 of the total, or even 1/4, which would represent 50% of the total damage (50% of 20% = 10%) or even 25% of the total damage (25% of 20% = 5%).

When the mechanic uses their defensive skills, they become a kind of "kill renouncer," because they lose damage and are severely punished for it, and you still haven't created a solution for the absurd nerf the class received.

 

To make it functional, just have the mechanic receive a portion of the raw damage, not all of it.

 

Nobody is playing the Mechanic class (at least not competitive players), and those who are playing tend to be solo/casual players because, despite recent buffs, the class remains the worst in the game.

[TadsK 328]

43 minutes ago, O2 said:

If the skill absorbs 20% of the damage from each party member, that doesn't mean it has to be completely distributed to the mechanic (raw damage). Simply reduce the damage received by the mechanic internally to 1/2 of the total, or even 1/4, which would represent 50% of the total damage (50% of 20% = 10%) or even 25% of the total damage (25% of 20% = 5%).

When the mechanic uses their defensive skills, they become a kind of "kill renouncer," because they lose damage and are severely punished for it, and you still haven't created a solution for the absurd nerf the class received.

 

To make it functional, just have the mechanic receive a portion of the raw damage, not all of it.

 

Nobody is playing the Mechanic class (at least not competitive players), and those who are playing tend to be solo/casual players because, despite recent buffs, the class remains the worst in the game.

So, the way it works now, it redirects 50% of the damage your team members would take.

 

After this, if reduces this damage by 20% and deals the remaining 80% to the Mechanician. So, it does exactly what you said.

The issue here is that if you make it have no real downsides, like dealing irrisory damage to the Mechanician, it will be too strong. Negating 50% of the damage your party members take is a big thing, that is what all the discussion is about above.

 

2 hours ago, Overlady said:

Option 3 is actually what we did in our internal playtest. If you guys are interested, we can review it again and maybe bring it back in the future.

 

Best,

Overlady

Please review it again. +1

 

Although I feel like a mix of "stop working if your health goes below a certain threshold, like 40-50%" and weakened percentage of damage redirected (20-30% instead of 50%) would probably be ideal now and make it a lot more useful.

 

There is also one more suggestion that would make this skill interesting: set a toggle for the range of gravitation. You can toggle to focus on a very short range, to focus on only close party members and toggle for it to work on a range like it works now so it can get all your party members. That way it can also create more situations where it would be useful, just protecting those who really need your help.

 

Thanks for coming to this thread and discussing with us, Overlady.

5 hours ago, manosalsa said:

I've been using this skill from its launch and with character level 150, almost every dungeon and also in maps. In my opinion this skills is very strong in a lot of cases, but your party needs to play around it aswell. 

 

What I'd like to see as a form of change is: be able to use it while using maximize, so we can be able to do damage and also tank some damage for the party and an increase in the damage absorbed by the mechanician, so we don't die with hit kill on dungeons... And of course, that we don't need to be active (hitting mobs) for the skill to absorb damage from our party.

I still feel like there is a little bit more adjustments to be made, the Mech is in a much better spot now, but Maximizing negating a lot of the other buffs still feels clunky. You either deal some damage and take some or you negate damage and deal weak damage, which in a lot of cases is not a benefit, since the game has a lot of content that rely on party damage check to feel rewarding, so it is better to have a Brawler or Knight in the role of tank/damage dealer if you can.

[ace1 387]

3 hours ago, FredderickS said:

Please fix this so the ability starts being used more. Gravitation is automatically disabled if your health is Below 50%. 

maybe, a more refined version would be the whole skill to gradually work proportionally to MS's current % HP.

 

100% HP = 50  reflect  / 20  absorb

50%   HP = 25  reflect  / 10  absorb

10%   HP = 0.5 reflect  / 0.2 absorb

 

anyways, flat 50% on/off is undoutblessly better than current design, as it avoids sui.cide situations.

Edited Tuesday at 12:43 AM by ace1

[ace1 387]

Also all damages received by the MS from the gravitation skill could be delivered slowly during 5 seconds (not insta delivered like other classes). This would also help avoiding hit kills.